anyone experiencing a shortage of skilled labor?

Status
Not open for further replies.

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
just curious what the job climate is in your area.


we've had no luck in finding competent employees; those we do bring on don't last very long. it's all travel work, and that seems to be the deal-breaker with these young guys. well that and just a complete lack of motivation.


you can't give these dang jobs away. all i hear on the radio is how high unemployement is; most have said they'd rather sit at home and collect unemployment.

am i crazy?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I don't know what area you are in but around here employers are complaining that it is also hard to get qualified applicants. I suspect it has been so bad for so long around here that everyone that might have been interested in work has moved on. The pickings are pretty slim among those remaining.
 

__dan

Banned
It's a very simple equation, you can get all the help you need if you are willing to pay a suitable wage. The 'market' price wage is set by non labor related factors, mostly debt servitude and the gov function in the economy as "borrower of last resort".

I will do all the road warrior work you want me to. I do what the customer wants done. How much is that worth ? The number we agree on, how many guys do you think you can get for that wage, 100? 1000?
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Remove the government incentive not to work, then the unemployment will go down. Since they passed the illegal imigration law here in Georgia, farmers and businesses are complaining they have no workers now. I have not seen any starving Illegals before this, so it is enough money to live on, just not as much as some people think their worth. You don't have to speak spanish to wash dishes.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
It's a very simple equation, you can get all the help you need if you are willing to pay a suitable wage. The 'market' price wage is set by non labor related factors, mostly debt servitude and the gov function in the economy as "borrower of last resort".

I will do all the road warrior work you want me to. I do what the customer wants done. How much is that worth ? The number we agree on, how many guys do you think you can get for that wage, 100? 1000?

The way I see it is we've had it to good for too long in the construction trade. Guys that were use to making $500 a day as formen or even workers would be lucky if the see $150 a day now and many of them just can't make it on that kind of money. Many employers know this and are taking advantage of the so called "tough job market".
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
There has always been a shortage of skilled workers in this area. University town so the interest in the trades is not very great.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
It's a very simple equation, you can get all the help you need if you are willing to pay a suitable wage. The 'market' price wage is set by non labor related factors, mostly debt servitude and the gov function in the economy as "borrower of last resort".

I will do all the road warrior work you want me to. I do what the customer wants done. How much is that worth ? The number we agree on, how many guys do you think you can get for that wage, 100? 1000?



dan,

i don't know how you came to that response when there was no mention of actual numbers.


also, wages are also set by what we can afford based on the bid. our competitors seem to already have cheaper labor as we can't compete with some of these incredibly low prices. maybe their employees realize its better to earn a little than nothing at all.

the profit margins are nowhere near what they were 4-5 years ago; you can't pay wages that simply aren't there.

that said, electricians here are paid a competitive wage.

furthermore, we're not even getting applicants.
 

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
Work

Work

Work was so slow for so long the better help got their contractors license, and set up their business, we were looking to subcontract work. Before all you start raising the trunk slammer issue, let me say this. We went into business to subcontract work from other electrical contractors.

I have found numerous electrical contractors that needed help this way, and basically we were working for a little more than wage, the contractor we were working for was the one running the risk. When someone comes to work for you, has all of the insurance required and vehicle, most of the time we are hired on the spot for some small jobs, and we have the benefit of a vehicle deduction.

Most of the time it is hard to put a price on a job (bid), because we can estimate some things, but it is better to let the ones bid it for the proper pricing than to under or overbid a job.

It has kept food on the table for a year now, and hopefully longer. The bigger jobs that I've been recruited for, after one look, the ridiculous rules, and the ridiculous help, told me to pass.

For a contractor to hire good help, you'll either have to wait for the right person and word of mouth, or you will have to post all of the information, pay hours work and per diem, or anybody like myself looks at this as a pass, it is what it is.

When somebody post all the information, the stuff that we care about, money you will get quailified help. You don't show it and you get the help that don't show.
 

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
Travel

Travel

One item that does come to mind is per deim, I have worked for companies before and what hey paid for perdeim was just enough to get a decent motel room, not including meals. You might want to go on the road with your crew once in a while and just see what everybody is up against.

I realize a company has to make a profit to keep the doors open, a lot of us do not see how you can make it anyway, that's why we do not venture into the traveling business. Sometimes when you tell yourself, I have to get this work and sharpen the pencil, that maybe you just put the pencil down.

Most contractors will use job boards and such or temp services, when the contractor or his appointed person, runs an add, sets up an interview, sits down and tells them we are going to take care of you on the road and here is what we do, and here is what we expect from you, you'll get a good hand. You have to interview sometimes five applicants to get one good hire.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
this was really just a shootin' the breeze, curiousity type question.



i'm tickled by a couple of these reponses.
 

knoppdude

Senior Member
Location
Sacramento,ca
In my area, there seems to still be a surplus of electricians, but I have noticed more job ads online than last year. Pay has gone down a bit, but the job requirements have increased; electrician who can weld, program, work on HVAC, etc. I know there are electricians who really can do it all, but these may be the ones in demand, not the run of the mill electrician. It has been tough on all of us, but hopefully things turn around soon. Although, I am not holding my breath.
 

__dan

Banned
dan,

i don't know how you came to that response when there was no mention of actual numbers.

The reply was from a very fundamental basis, not specific to an instance.

I spent a lot of time basically, getting screwed, and wondering why the numbers could not be made to match up. It seems simple in theory, work at a skill level where value is created and earn an honest living. I spent a lot of time at tag sales buying old college econ textbooks looking for the insight. They were all kindergarten level, pictures of dollar signs with an arrow showing flow to the bank building.

I finally found the insight I was looking for in a history of economics book published in 1954. What became predictable but not when. I could make more than one fortune with good timing. I've posted this before Georgetown history and economics professor Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope.

Quigley's insight, in reference to your inquiry, for thousands of years prior to ~ 1900, doing anything, building, farming, trade, was very labor intensive and the skilled labor would be in short supply. Money, cash, capital would also be in short supply which is why honest trade was conducted historically using seashells, dung chips, wooden sticks, as money for transaction. Since labor was a scare and valuable commodity, there was also institutionalzed conscription, slavery. Shortages of labor when production was labor intensive resulted in shortages of output, scarcity of goods offered for sale.

After ~ 1900, with the exploitation of oil fuels, mechanization, the atomic understanding of the universe, chemistry, electronics, large capital organization, output per labor hour, and output in aggregate of goods offered for sale, far exceeded demand and achieved, essentially, perpetual surplus.

The surplus of output relative demand also produced a surplus of labor, which in theory could have resulted in more leisure time for the worker. It took physically less labor to produce the necessities of living. There was a decision to be made by the powers that be, what to do to create demand to absorb and balance the surplus capacity to produce goods offered for sale. One option was to push demand farther down the economic ladder, to the 'have nots'. Consumption for the have nots, once the daily living necessities are met, moves up the ladder of consumption, to free leisure time, education, intellectual and entertainment pursuits, self enrichment, travel, study. The necessities could be met with less overall labor.

Reinvestment of the surplus in productive capacity results in larger more efficient productive capacity, which results in more of a surplus of goods offered for sale.

There has to be money in circulation to buy the output of goods offered for sale, which is why the federal reserve is able to print money and lend that cash to the Treasury at interest, purchase Treasury debt. Growth in output needs to be balanced with growth in the money supply for output to be bought and transaction to take place.

The powers that be probably feared the huge increase in population, babies!, that would result from the have nots meeting their daily necessities more easily coupled with more leisure time, and so another system was needed to absorb the phenonenal and very real huge surplus of productive capacity.

Which brings us to the present day. Yes, we needed goobermint waste. The gov borrows, the act of borrowing increases the money supply, and the money is not spent on delivering the surplus (leisure time, personal advancement) to the have nots, the borrowing is "capital investment in goods not offered for sale". Labor is again conscripted, now to service interest on the debt, for usury

For things to align with the fundamental real surplus, wages would have to rise to the point where necessities are met easily and result in more free time for the worker. There is a surplus of everything, including labor. The worker would have to be technically skilled, but this technology, tooling, capital investment, results in vast gains of output per labor hour.

My reply was not specific to your inquiry. It is fundamentally why there's a vote to raise the debt limit. Or, why is there a vote?
 
Last edited:

stevenje

Senior Member
Location
Yachats Oregon
just curious what the job climate is in your area.


we've had no luck in finding competent employees; those we do bring on don't last very long. it's all travel work, and that seems to be the deal-breaker with these young guys. well that and just a complete lack of motivation.


you can't give these dang jobs away. all i hear on the radio is how high unemployement is; most have said they'd rather sit at home and collect unemployment.

am i crazy?

I have done my far share of travel work in the past and it didn't take long for it to get old. About 2 weeks. Rarely if ever, does the job pay enough to begin to compensate for being away from your family, friends and your daily routine, not to mention the hassle of living out of a suitcase.

Back in the day, I knew a few "powerhouse rats" that loved the lifestyle of being on the road. Overtime work, hit the bar, get some sleep and get up and do it all over again. Not my kind of living, but the boys usually came home with a wad of cash in their pockets.

IMHO, if you wave enough cash in front of them you will be surprised on how many will sign up and hit the road to the next job.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
we've had no luck in finding competent employees; those we do bring on don't last very long.

our competitors seem to already have cheaper labor as we can't compete with some of these incredibly low prices. maybe their employees realize its better to earn a little than nothing at all.

Key word = competent.

The competetion may not be all that interested in finding or keeping competent people. If it walks and it talks it's an electrician.
 

SBuck

Member
To me it is very simple, you pay for what you get. I started my shop in febuary and when I started I called every contractor that is local. The rates they are charging allows me to pay my employees 30/hr for residential work and I still make good money. But I have seen ads online trying to hire licensed electricians in my area for 15-20/hr. Will they make more than me, doubtful because my workers are more skilled and knowledgable. Skill is worth more than just someone that shows up. Now find skill and work ethic, you better plan on paying for it. If someone can underbid let them. Eventually they will be out of business.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
My problem is being a little guy with very little cash flow. I just started my 4th year in business & it's mostly me. I have had guys sort of "on call" who were between jobs & doing what they could find. I had 1 guy, a former customer, who was great. I would call him when I had a bigger job & he was great help. But I couldn't keep enough work flowing to keep him full time. I would get a couple of decent jobs, then things would taper off again. He had to work some for other people, then was offered something full time. I'd still like to get him back if things improve. He's a good guy to be able to send out alone to someone's house or business. That's important to me, as I advertise that I/we can be trusted around home/family.

I had a young guy, a neighbor, recent college grad. He is a good hard worker, though not proficient with tools. He was good help though. But he's looking for jobs in his field of study and won't be available much to me. I told him I was praying that none of his applications come through.:D

I had a friend of his for a few days, about 19 or 20. He worked with me 2 1/2 days before getting sick, working in an air conditioned environment. Good kid, but soft, & not mechanically inclined much.

I'm thinking of calling a construction temp service & seeing if I can get some 1 or 2 days a week & keep them busy with some cleanup stuff part of the time & have them around if work comes in. The longer I go, the more I realize I can't do it all. Work that takes 2 hours for 2 people can take 4 or 5 when working alone. That's a killer.

With past employers, over 15 years, I have worked with several young guys who not only had to be taught electrical work, but how to use their basic tools. Not as many grew up doing even basic work of any kind. I've had to explain how to use socket sets, which end of a hacksaw is the handle, that large screwdrivers are for large screws, small ones for small screws, etc. I've also seen some who are unwilling to buy much beyond their basics, then wonder why they don't get much in raises. 1 guy wouldn't buy work boots; eventually the boss gave him a pair, as a particular customer required boots, no sneakers.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
In my area, there seems to still be a surplus of electricians, but I have noticed more job ads online than last year. Pay has gone down a bit, but the job requirements have increased; electrician who can weld, program, work on HVAC, etc. I know there are electricians who really can do it all, but these may be the ones in demand, not the run of the mill electrician. It has been tough on all of us, but hopefully things turn around soon. Although, I am not holding my breath.


Who wouldn't want the ones that can do other tasks like welding, HVAC, etc.?

These are the people that are willing to learn things, and are not afraid to actually do the work. They are more valuable than someone that thinks he can't do anything outside his percieved job description. That latter person is what many call lazy.

I have always felt it is pathetic when you need to make a rack or stand to mount equipment on and you have to wait for someone from another trade to come along to do it, especially on some small job where there are no other trades already working there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top