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MrArachnid

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Titusville, FL US
I am new to this forum and a journeyman electrician. I have been in the trade for 18 years. I am stepping into an arena I am not very familiar with and would like some input from my fellow tradesman.
I am involved with a R&D project at the plant I work at and I am wanting to know if anyone is familiar with European wiring standards. I have downloaded quite a bit of info for the IEC standards but I am not finding what I need to know. Here's the issue: The project involves 220Y/380Delta; 3 PH; 50Hz. The motors and controls are all rated for this but I am needing to derive 220Y for five of the pump motors and to my knowledge this can only be accomplished phase to neutral. I need to include circuit protection supplying the Motor starter and I am not sure if I would break the neutral.
I know the NEC makes exceptions for neutral make and break in certain situations but I cannot find the information needed to tell me if this is acceptable for the European standard.

Any help, information or a point in the right direction would be appreciated.
 
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MrArachnid

Member
Location
Titusville, FL US
The work, or 80% of it, is taking place in FL. However, our Denmark counterparts have requested that we hold to IEC compliance and that our parts bear the CE mark. This has not proven difficult. I cannot find the info on whether or not to break neutral. I have read that the neutral is treated as a conductor but nothing specific on whether or not it should pass through a circuit breaker.
 
rbalex

rbalex

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Mission Viejo, CA
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This is a question you should be asking your "Denmark counterparts."

Unfortunately, it's now been about 8 years since I've done a CENELEC job. That said, it is highly unusual that a design or application that is conceptually acceptable in US domestic practice wouldn't be in Europe. They are far more "liberal." That's why they readily accept CE marks which are essentically manufacturer self-certifications rather than third party.

HOWEVER, if the end-product is intended for the US domestic market it will be a loooooooong row to hoe.

In any case you don't need to break the neutral.
 
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MrArachnid

Member
Location
Titusville, FL US
No, the end result will be on a pig farm in Denmark. I will be traveling to do the final install in conjunction with locals. I wouldn't think that you would break neutral...that was my initial thought. But when I read that the neutral is treated as a conductor...I was tail spun. I am going to proceed with how I would wire it in the US since ,as you (rbalex) put it, they are more "liberal" with their standards. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.

Great forum!
 
GeorgeB

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
MrArachnid said:
The project involves 220Y/380Delta; 3 PH.
Click to expand...
I want to throw an additional idea out. Although we don't usually talk about both the Y and delta voltages, it is extremely common to use Y-Delta starting. A motor designed for delta wired running at 220 COULD be said to be wired for 380 while in the Y wired starting configuration with only 220 applied. That is not normal terminology, but who wrote the specs?
 
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CIECO

Senior Member
Just to clarify things 220Y 380D Do not have any thing to do with the incomming transformer but with the motor connections. and 220 in europe is 1 phase to nutral on a 380 system and you will not run a 220 3 phase motor on 220 in europe
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
MrArachnid said:
The project involves 220Y/380Delta; 3 PH; 50Hz. The motors and controls are all rated for this but I am needing to derive 220Y for five of the pump motors and to my knowledge this can only be accomplished phase to neutral.
Click to expand...

Where I am confused is where you mentioned 220Y/380Delta. You also mentioned that you need to derive 220Y. That to me means a 3 phase system with 220 volts between phases. The 220/380Y (which is what I think you have) is 380 phase to phase and 220 to neutral isn't it?

If I have that all right the only 220 you have is single phase, line to neutral. If you need 220 three phase you will need a transformer to derive it.
 
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