NABCEP Certification

[dereckbc]

Just curious if any of you have NABCEP certification and does it have any value on its own.

My opinion is it can be a plus for a licensed EC, but of little or no value otherwise.

Now what I have heard is some states might require a NABCEP certifications to qualify for state entitlements.

 

[iwire]

Just curious if any of you have NABCEP certification and does it have any value on its own.

My opinion is it can be a plus for a licensed EC, but of little or no value otherwise.

Now what I have heard is some states might require a NABCEP certifications to qualify for state entitlements.

Yes I do, the lowest level they offer.

It has not helped me personally a bit.

Yes, here the company needs to have NABCEP certs in order to bid certain jobs due to the rules for the rebates.

 

[aelectricalman]

Nabcep

Nabcep

Both exams are tough (PV and Thermal). The PV exam registration was in July, so you'll have to wait till next year. It is very helpful if you're in the solar game. Many RFQ's require you have 1 or even 2 NABCEP's employeed by your company to even be considered. I can speak for the commercial side of it (schools, hospitals, military, etc...) Some states require in order to apply for the state tax credit you have to have a NABCEP installer install the panels. Our office has 2 NABCEPS and will soon have three. It is the benchmark for which experience is measured. Personnally, I think it should be required across the board due to the danger of installing solar. The NEC is still very foggy on its stance (as I've seen some forum members say recently).

 

[ggunn]

Just curious if any of you have NABCEP certification and does it have any value on its own.

My opinion is it can be a plus for a licensed EC, but of little or no value otherwise.

Now what I have heard is some states might require a NABCEP certifications to qualify for state entitlements.

I am a NABCEP certified installer and a PE (Electrical). Together they got me the job that I have now. The "entry level" NABCEP paper (it's not a certification) is only a first step and not worth much on its own.

 

[dereckbc]

It is the benchmark for which experience is measured.

Not quite so sure about that. You cannot pull a permit or pass inspection with NABCEP. The only requirement for the NABCEP is pass a written test and pay an application fee. I have seen 19 year old kids pass the test. An Licensed Residential Electrician has at least 2 years or equivalent formal technical education, plus 3 to 5 years of apprenticeship OJT before he/she can take the test in most states.

I understand some states require the NABCEP certification before handing out public money, but that does not qualify you to pull the permit or do electrical work

I can see it as some benefit to a licensed electrician obtaining the certification as a potential EC may hire that individual to do Solar Work and fulfill the requirement in states that require a NABCEP for funding. But just holding the NABCEP without some sort of license like electrical or engineering I do not see any real value by itself.

 

[aelectricalman]

I agree, it is not a substitution for an electrical license! I think all installers should first be licensed master electricians and then NABCEP's, however, the NABCEP test is very hard, especially the PV. There is no more comprehensive knowledge assesment tool that beats the NABCEP. That is the reason government money is handed out only when you are a NABCEP. It keeps the guys with a toolbox and a truck (ie. roofers and flybynights) from installing these things. Furthermore, it makes the installs safer as a whole when the installer is qualified. Posessing an electrical license does not make you qualified to install solar PV, but its the critical first step. The second step is a NABCEP. At least where I live.

 

[aelectricalman]

Also, we have 2 Mechanical engineers in our office. One graduated 1st in his class, the other in the top of their class. They scored a 79 and an 82 respectively out of 100. Your average 19 yr old can not pass this test. You must have good experience to pass the exam!

 

[jaggedben]

My take on NABCEP is that it is for those who want or need to engage in the design and engineering of solar energy systems, whether electric or thermal. Aside from the whole thermal side, things covered that have nothing to do with being an electrician include solar resource, tilt and azimuth, shading considerations, and so on.

Although it covers some of the same ground as being a licensed electrician, there is a lot one needs to know to design a solar system that one does not need to know to install it, and the vice versa is also true, though perhaps to a lesser extent.

Personnally, I think it should be required across the board due to the danger of installing solar.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'across the board' but I have to say that I think basic safety particular to solar PV can be covered in an afternoon seminar.

 

[dereckbc]

Well I am a PE, and I have been designing mostly off-grid battery systems, 4 to 6 Kw systems for the cellular telecom industry, and a few commercial grid tied systems. It took me about one design each to get the hang of it.

I was also an electrician many moons ago and I think I can honestly say any licensed electrician has all the skills necessary to install a solar PV system. I further think with just a few days of instruction I could teach any of you to design a working system as any electrician has the math skills as they are not any different than they work with on any given day. If you understand watt hours and efficiency equations, it is a piece of cake, plus their are enough on line tools to do the insolation calculations, but when you break it down insolation means nothing more than hours used in a watt hour calculation. Once you know what the insolation is in hours like 4.3 hours/day annual average and you need 30 Kwh the math is very straight forward to find the wattage.

So from what I have heard so far it would benefit a licensed electrician to possible job opportunities, but on its own does not qualify you to do any work for hire. It still takes a PE to certify the roof structure and electrical, and an EC to pull the permits for hire. Other than state entitlement money I have not been able to determine any other benefit, and the states i work in that is not an issue. But of course in TX we have no Net Metering Laws and electric rates are so inexpensive solar is not much of a public issue as there is no real benefit for solar yet in TX. OK and NM is hit and miss.

 

[ggunn]

Not quite so sure about that. You cannot pull a permit or pass inspection with NABCEP. The only requirement for the NABCEP is pass a written test and pay an application fee. I have seen 19 year old kids pass the test.

Which test? The entry level exam is not that tough, and passing it only shows that you have had some basic exposure to PV. The professional level exam is something else entirely, and while I do not discount out of hand the possibility of a 19 year old kid passing it, it would be a pretty dedicated kid. There weren't any 19 year olds in the room when I took that exam.

BTW, it's only the entry level exam which only requires a fee be paid in order to take it; the prerequisites to sit for the pro exam are significantly more stringent.

 

[iwire]

Which test? The entry level exam is not that tough, and passing it only shows that you have had some basic exposure to PV. The professional level exam is something else entirely, and while I do not discount out of hand the possibility of a 19 year old kid passing it, it would be a pretty dedicated kid. There weren't any 19 year olds in the room when I took that exam.

BTW, it's only the entry level exam which only requires a fee be paid in order to take it; the prerequisites to sit for the pro exam are significantly more stringent.

The entry level which I took is a bit more than you make it sound but you are correct it is not a certification.

 

[ggunn]

The entry level which I took is a bit more than you make it sound but you are correct it is not a certification.

I was not trying to make the entry level exam sound particularly easy in an absolute sense (although for someone with an EE degree it's not that hard - YMMV), only that there is a very large relative difference in the degree of difficulty between the entry level and pro level exams, as there should be. The pro NABCEP exam was the most challenging test I have sat for since engineering school many moons ago,

 

[dereckbc]

Which test?

Are we talking about the same thing?

Last Time I checked the NABCEP website and inquired there are:

Entry Level
Solar PV Installer Certification
Solar Thermal Installer Certification
Small Wind Installer Certification
Technical Sales Certification

Application fee is $100
Exam Fee is $300

Yes I have seen many a 19 and 20 year old kids holding a Solar PV Installer Certification working under a licensed EC. Our local community college has a 1 semester course to teach the material and give the exam at the end.

 

[ggunn]

Are we talking about the same thing?

Last Time I checked the NABCEP website and inquired there are:

Entry Level
Solar PV Installer Certification
Solar Thermal Installer Certification
Small Wind Installer Certification
Technical Sales Certification

Application fee is $100
Exam Fee is $300

Yes I have seen many a 19 and 20 year old kids holding a Solar PV Installer Certification working under a licensed EC. Our local community college has a 1 semester course to teach the material and give the exam at the end.

Are you sure about that? Austin Community College has a 1 semester course culminating in a NABCEP exam as well, but it's the entry level one. One cannot sit for the professional level NABCEP exam on the basis of classroom training alone. IMO, no one whose total solar experience is a one semester community college course will be anywhere near ready for the professional NABCEP installers' exam.

The professional NABCEP exam is only given in March and September and only in a few locations in each state, and all at precisely the same time. If an exam is given at the end of a semester at a community college, it's the entry level exam. If one can sit for it with only classroom instruction, it's the entry level exam. If it's relatively easy to pass, it's the entry level exam (the pro exam historically has had about a 70% failure rate while about 80% pass the entry level).

This has been a source of some confusion, and there have been cases of folks who have only taken the entry level exam trying to pass themselves off as "NABCEP certified". For that reason, NABCEP has been considering doing away with the entry level test altogether.

 

[brett henderson]

Is Mike Holt's NABCEP Material for 2011 Code helpful for NABCEP exam on 2008 code?

Is Mike Holt's NABCEP Material for 2011 Code helpful for NABCEP exam on 2008 code?

Hi, I am trying to find good study materials for the upcoming NABCEP exam in September. Mike Holt is about the only study material I can find, but it says it is based on 2011 code book. The NABCEP exam is based on 2008 code book. Is this going to cause a problem? Will the differences cause confusion instead of clarity? Has anyone taken the NABCEP and used Mike Holt's 2011 study material? Any insights on this would be much appreciated. If anyone knows of classes in Ohio area or good study materials that would be helpful too.
Thanks,
Brett

 

[dereckbc]

Is this still the Study Guide and Course Material for a Solar PV Installer Certification? It is the one I was suppose to use when offered to teach the class and give the Exam in 2009 which I declined. It is 74 pages of material. The only other reference guide needed is the NEC 2008 (whiich is covered in the Study Guide that apply to the test) and you can take the NEC book into the test. Has that changed? The answers to the test are included in the study guide if memory serves me correctly.

 

[brett henderson]

Thanks

Thanks

Yes, I am aware of the study guide posted on NABCEP's website, with a sample test, but from what I have heard of this test, I want to be studying everything out there to prepare. I have reviewed the above study guide, but want something that also goes over using 2008 code book and covers osha material.
Thanks,
Brett

 

[ggunn]

Is this still the Study Guide and Course Material for a Solar PV Installer Certification? It is the one I was suppose to use when offered to teach the class and give the Exam in 2009 which I declined. It is 74 pages of material. The only other reference guide needed is the NEC 2008 (whiich is covered in the Study Guide that apply to the test) and you can take the NEC book into the test. Has that changed? The answers to the test are included in the study guide if memory serves me correctly.

In my experience the study guide at the NABCEP site was not that representative of what is on the exam. The exam I took was very code-heavy, while the study guide emphasizes calculation. John Wiles published a Best Practices document for dealing with NEC issues; I highly recommend getting that. As far as studying the Code, know 690 inside and out, of course, and be very familiar with grounding, conductor sizing and derating, OCPD's, and conduit (especially expansion joints). And on any safety question where one of the choices mentions a painted wooden ladder, that is NOT the right answer.

And BTW, you cannot bring your own code book (or calculator, or scratch paper, or pencils, or hat, or jacket...) into the testing room. They will issue you a code book (if you write in it they will disqualify you), pencils, paper, and calculator.

 

[dereckbc]

In my experience the study guide at the NABCEP site was not that representative of what is on the exam. The exam I took was very code-heavy, while the study guide emphasizes calculation. John Wiles published a Best Practices document for dealing with NEC issues; I highly recommend getting that.

Yes I know and agree. Here is the Link to John's White paper. I have had correspondence with John and have all his white papers and course outlines for Solar PV Installers Certifications.

The NEC is the primary study guide for the test as you have indicated (Electrician Bible), and unless things have changed you can bring in any reference material you want into the exam including the NEC code book. Which brings me to my point, any worthy licensed electrician should not have any problem passing the certification exam, and 9 weeks of course material in a community college with an eager student can pass the exam. As an engineer I could careless if you have a NABCEP certification, I demand a license and experience to award my contracts.

This is where I formed my opinion, and it is only my opinion, the NABCEP Solar PV Certification alone does mot qualify you to do electrical work. However it may benefit a licensed electrician or an apprentice working toward his license with future employment and/or contract work for hire.

Personally I think any experienced licensed electrician can pass the Solar PV Installer Certification who is willing to do a little homework and preparation as they already have the education, experience, and knowledge. Heck even an engineer like myself can pass the exam.

What I am driving at is for the NABCEP certification, one of the prerequisite requirements for the exam should be to have a license in the respected field like electrical in Solar PV, or plumbing in solar hot water thermal systems. That would bring credibility to the certification. As an engineer I could careless about the NABCEP certification, I demand a license and experience to award a contract. But that is just me.

 

[ggunn]

Yes I know and agree. Here is the Link to John's White paper. I have had correspondence with John and have all his white papers and course outlines for Solar PV Installers Certifications.

The NEC is the primary study guide for the test as you have indicated (Electrician Bible), and unless things have changed you can bring in any reference material you want into the exam including the NEC code book. Which brings me to my point, any worthy licensed electrician should not have any problem passing the certification exam, and 9 weeks of course material in a community college with an eager student can pass the exam.

That is true for the entry level exam, not the professional exam. You cannot bring anything into the pro exam, not even your own pencil. The only material you can use during the test is the NEC, which they give you, and if you write anything in it you can be kicked out of the exam. And 9 weeks of course material will not prepare someone for the pro exam, if for no other reason than that the requirements to sit for the pro exam include being a principle participant in two real world installations; classroom and lab time won't do it. The only exception to this is if the applicant is a licensed electrician and has attended the specialized course for them at a NABCEP accredited training facility licensed by NABCEP to administer it. Students in that course install two proctored systems with no assistance from instructors. I know of only one such facility, and it is here in Austin.

I mean no offense, but are you NABCEP certified at the professional level? I am, and I am an adjunct instructor at a NABCEP accredited training facility. I am an engineer as well, and I have several emails from John, myself. ;^)