Service drop, panel and main breaker questions

[tonype]

1. Photos show damaged SEC conduit (duct tape, service head), yet had AHJ 2009 approval. Should this have been flagged (or does the POCO have say in the matter)?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN3921.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN3920_edited-1.jpg

2. What would generally cause terminal bar connections to fry?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN4026.jpg

3. 200-amp main for 4 family. After the main, there are 5 separately metered systems (each apartment and owner). One apartment panel contains 7 disconnects, though no dedicated main. Is the 200-amp main considered the required main or is a dedicated one needed for this panel.

 

[John120/240]

What happened to the weatherhead ? Duct tape on the mast would not fly

here. It's an overloaded neutral. There has to be a better route from the

meter to POA. Offset rigid around the gutter, or mast through the soffit. Guy

wire for either install.

 

[Little Bill]

1. Photos show damaged SEC conduit (duct tape, service head), yet had AHJ 2009 approval. Should this have been flagged (or does the POCO have say in the matter)?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN3921.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN3920_edited-1.jpg

2. What would generally cause terminal bar connections to fry?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/DSCN4026.jpg

3. 200-amp main for 4 family. After the main, there are 5 separately metered systems (each apartment and owner). One apartment panel contains 7 disconnects, though no dedicated main. Is the 200-amp main considered the required main or is a dedicated one needed for this panel.

First 2 pics. I don't see a weather head at all, and looks like, can't tell for sure, that the point of attachment is higher than the mast where the weather head is supposed to be.
Third pic. could be an overloaded neutral, loose connection, or both. IMO.

 

[Hv&Lv]

1. Photos show damaged SEC conduit (duct tape, service head), yet had AHJ 2009 approval. Should this have been flagged (or does the POCO have say in the matter)?

It would appear that there are a couple of extra holes. Perhaps a storm came through and caused a tree or a limb to tear the service down? Regardless, it is up to the homeowner to have it repaired.


2. What would generally cause terminal bar connections to fry?


Appears to be a loose neutral. Is that blackest one double tapped?

 

[Hv&Lv]

t

 

[tonype]

Appears to be a loose neutral. Is that blackest one double tapped?

Nothing double lugged

 

[infinity]

The conduit/weatherhead is damaged and needs to be replaced. Water infiltration will eventually destroy the meter enclosure and possibly the meter too.

 

[jumper]

Tony, try a Direct Link, your picture will post with your comments/questions and many of us find it easier to follow.

 

[kwired]

The way those conductors are routed I would say there never was a cap on the weatherhead, makes you wonder what was the point of putting it there in the first place if it was not going to have a cap?

The blackened neutral conductor was probably loose connection more so than overloaded

 

[tonype]

3. 200-amp main for 4 family. After the main, there are 5 separately metered systems (each apartment and owner). One apartment panel contains 7 disconnects, though no dedicated main. Is the 200-amp main considered the required main or is a dedicated one needed for this panel.

Any input on this question?

 

[kwired]

Any input on this question?

Each apartment does not require a main within the apartment. Occupants need to have access to the main feeding their apartment. If wherever the feeder originates is accessible to occupants then that is fine. Exception to that is if there is property management readily available. Sorry did not look it up but I think I am close enough to give you the intention. If this applies to you it really is up to AHJ interpretation of what is acceptable for the exception.

Add: 200 amp main for 4 family is just fine if load calculation is less than 200. Can easily happen if all heating appliances are gas.

 

[donselectric]

r those metal conduit clips i see.....::thumbsdown:

 

[kwired]

r those metal conduit clips i see.....::thumbsdown:

Metal straps is the only good thing in this installation.:thumbsup:

 

[Jon456]

Each apartment does not require a main within the apartment. Occupants need to have access to the main feeding their apartment. If wherever the feeder originates is accessible to occupants then that is fine.

Doesn't it depend on the location of each apartment's subpanel? If they are co-located with the service entrance main, then I see no problem. But if they are not at the same location, then I believe 225.33 requires a main disconnect on the one apartment panel with 7 disconnects.

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switch-board. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.

 

[kwired]

Doesn't it depend on the location of each apartment's subpanel? If they are co-located with the service entrance main, then I see no problem. But if they are not at the same location, then I believe 225.33 requires a main disconnect on the one apartment panel with 7 disconnects.

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switch-board. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.

3. 200-amp main for 4 family. After the main, there are 5 separately metered systems (each apartment and owner). One apartment panel contains 7 disconnects, though no dedicated main. Is the 200-amp main considered the required main or is a dedicated one needed for this panel.

If each apartment were a separate building then each separtate building would require 6 or less disconnects grouped as mentioned.

If all the units are in same building OP says he has 200 amp main. This could be a service or a feeder fed supply - he still has one main for the building. Each panel for each occupant will be supplied by feeders. The feeder breaker is a main for the panel it feeds. A main in the panel is not required. If in a multiple occupancy building each occupant must have access to their service/supply disconnecting means.

 

[Jon456]

This begs the question: what is the NEC's definition of "any one location". I thought that meant the enclosures had to be co-located, or at least within sight of each other.