20A OCPD Requirment for Recepticles

[rsvetti]

Hey all,

I seem to remember a code which required 20A OCPDs for all recepticles in residential applications.
After looking for the code however, I could not seem to find it.

Perhaps this is because the code does not exist, or it did not exist in the 2002 revision.
Could someone please set me straight here?

I am looking to identify this code or to otherwise confirm that the requirement does not exist.

Thanx,
RSvetti

 

[jumper]

Hey all,

I seem to remember a code which required 20A OCPDs for all recepticles in residential applications.
After looking for the code however, I could not seem to find it.

Perhaps this is because the code does not exist, or it did not exist in the 2002 revision.
Could someone please set me straight here?

I am looking to identify this code or to otherwise confirm that the requirement does not exist.

Thanx,
RSvetti

It does not exist, certain circuits require 20 amp capacity, 210.11(C), but not all.

 

[infinity]

I'd say that it's a safe bet that if never existed in the NEC.

 

[Jon456]

With modern residential electrical usage, I sure wish there were such a requirement. Sadly, I find that most homes are wired with a single 15A branch circuit powering the outlets in multiple rooms. With multiple PCs, printers, TVs, DVD/DVRs, stereos, etc., it's not uncommon to have a breaker trip (especially when someone decides to vacuum a room) and then two or three rooms go dead (often to the chagrin of the home-office user or student in the middle of writing a document).

I think that all new construction should use 20A branch circuits for outlets. I would go even further and say that each living-space room should have it's own dedicated branch circuit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Hey all,

I seem to remember a code which required 20A OCPDs for all recepticles in residential applications.
After looking for the code however, I could not seem to find it.

Perhaps this is because the code does not exist, or it did not exist in the 2002 revision.
Could someone please set me straight here?

I am looking to identify this code or to otherwise confirm that the requirement does not exist.

Thanx,
RSvetti

I believe it was a code in NYC at one time and may still be. When I worked there 40+ years again I never ran across 14 awg anywhere.

 

[infinity]

I believe it was a code in NYC at one time and may still be. When I worked there 40+ years again I never ran across 14 awg anywhere.

Actually the requirement was for only 15 amp circuits with no smaller than #12 conductors. 20 amp circuits were only permitted for specific things such as 277 volt lighting and SABC's etc.

 

[roger]

Sadly, I find that most homes are wired with a single 15A branch circuit powering the outlets in multiple rooms.

Say what? When were these homes built?

Roger

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
I think that all new construction should use 20A branch circuits for outlets. I would go even further and say that each living-space room should have it's own dedicated branch circuit.

Proposals for the 2014 code are due in by 5pm on the first Friday of November 2011. There is a form in the back of your code book. Fill it out and send it in, but you will need solid justification as to why this change is needed.

 

[Jon456]

Say what? When were these homes built?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. My mom's detached single-family home (custom built in the mid-70's in a very upscale SF Bay Area neighborhood) had all three upstairs bedrooms on a single 15A branch. I'm currently living in a detached single-family home built in 2004 that has the master bedroom and the two additional bedrooms (one of which I use as a home-office) all on a single 15A branch circuit.

 

[Jon456]

Proposals for the 2014 code are due in by 5pm on the first Friday of November 2011. There is a form in the back of your code book. Fill it out and send it in, but you will need solid justification as to why this change is needed.

Would the code be updated for something that is probably more of a nusiance issue than a fire or safety issue? I would think it's possible, but then I wonder why no one has proposed this before. (Unless it has already been proposed and rejected. Is there an indexed listing of rejected proposals somewhere?)

Does anyone else think this would be a good change?

 

[John120/240]

I think that all new construction should use 20A branch circuits for outlets. I would go even further and say that each living-space room should have it's own dedicated branch circuit.

That would be overkill 20 A circuit for each room. With proper circuit planning

15 A, you should not have any problems with average bedroom loads.

 

[Jon456]

The problem isn't so much the OCPD, but rather the voltage drop on 14AWG wire, particularly when certain devices are turn on (like vacuum cleaners and laser printers). The reality is that bedrooms are no longer just a place for sleeping. Many people turn a spare bedroom into a home office or an AV/game room. And the electrical demands are more than just bedside lamps and alarm clocks: now you will find radiant heaters, computers, printers, and large-screen televisions, even in bedrooms that people do sleep in. Although a 15A OCPD may not trip under these loads, the voltage drop when a device is turned on can be enough to cause, for example, a computer to reboot (resulting in possible loss of data).

And forget about plugging a portable A/C unit into a 15A branch circuit!

 

[jumper]

Actually the requirement was for only 15 amp circuits with no smaller than #12 conductors. 20 amp circuits were only permitted for specific things such as 277 volt lighting and SABC's etc.

Am I reading this right, NYC allows 277 volt lighting in residential?:?

 

[readydave8]

Would the code be updated for something that is probably more of a nusiance issue than a fire or safety issue? I would think it's possible, but then I wonder why no one has proposed this before. (Unless it has already been proposed and rejected. Is there an indexed listing of rejected proposals somewhere?)

Does anyone else think this would be a good change?

I usually run #12 to bedrooms, got in the habit years ago in response to certain customer complaints.

I think this would very much not be a good change, there's a lot of 15 amp circuits that will never give trouble.

 

[jaylectricity]

Am I reading this right, NYC allows 277 volt lighting in residential?:?

Some pretty big buildings there...probably saves a lot on loads for building after building with hundreds of units each.

 

[jumper]

Some pretty big buildings there...probably saves a lot on loads for building after building with hundreds of units each.

Yeah makes sense, but......

210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations. The nominal
voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
by 210.6(A) through (E).
(A) Occupancy Limitation. In dwelling units and guest
rooms or guest suites of hotels, motels, and similar occupancies,
the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between
conductors that supply the terminals of the following:
(1) Luminaires

Heck of an amendment IMO.

 

[infinity]

Am I reading this right, NYC allows 277 volt lighting in residential?:?

No there was a time years ago where the NYC Electrical code only allowed 15 amp branch circuits for power and lighting with a few exceptions. 20 amp, 277 volt lighting was one of them.

 

[jumper]

No there was a time years ago where the NYC Electrical code only allowed 15 amp branch circuits for power and lighting with a few exceptions. 20 amp, 277 volt lighting was one of them.

Okay, cool, thanks.

 

[Jon456]

I usually run #12 to bedrooms, got in the habit years ago in response to certain customer complaints. I think this would very much not be a good change, there's a lot of 15 amp circuits that will never give trouble.

I'm curious as to the complaints you had and why you switched to #12 for most of your installs if you think it's an unnecessary change. Mind you, I think lighting circuits are fine at 15A. I'm only talking about outlet circuits in living-space rooms. I suppose they could be #12 wire with 15A OCPD. But there is not much, if any, savings in that and I still think living-space rooms could benefit from 20A branch circuits for outlets.

The problem with #14 circuits is that, even if it's fine for the original resident, it may not be fine for the next family that occupies the house. You have to admit that residential power demands have increased dramatically in recent years. And even though there is now an emphasis on power-saving "green" appliances, I expect power demands to continue to increase, or at least not decrease. As a reference, a single oil-filled radiant space heater can draw 12.5A. That alone will almost max the capacity of a 15A branch circuit. Imagine that branch circuit now serving more than one room! Another example, a single large-screen plasma TV can draw 6A; almost half the capacity of the 15A circuit.

 

[stickboy1375]

As a reference, a single oil-filled radiant space heater can draw 12.5A. That alone will almost max the capacity of a 15A branch circuit. Imagine that branch circuit now serving more than one room! Another example, a single large-screen plasma TV can draw 6A; almost half the capacity of the 15A circuit.

They can gladly hire me for a dedicated circuit in the future... im still going to keep on wiring with #14.