Coffee Makers and External Timers

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jtinge

Senior Member
Location
Hampton, VA
Occupation
Sr. Elec. Engr
Many industrial sites, including mine, have safety regulations that prohibit plugging high current heating devices like coffee pots and microwave ovens into power strips or extension cords and require that they be plugged directly into a wall outlet. It's pretty common, however, to see commercial coffee pots plugged into external cord connected timers. This seems to violate the spirit of not plugging the coffee pot directly into a wall outlet, however I have not found any guidance on or prohibitions against using external cord connected timers in this fashion. Most of the external timers I've seen used for coffee pots seem to be industrial timers with a flexible cord and plug added after the fact. Since this is not a UL listed assembly I can easily argue against its use. But are there UL listed cord connected timers that can be used for coffee pots and would there use be considered similar to using an extension cord or power strip? Do any of you have safety regulations that address external timers on coffee pots and if so what are they?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Has anyone or anything been damaged by the present arrangement?

What is the safety issue you see?

Personally I see a big difference between plugging a coffee maker into a plug strip vs a timer rated for the load.
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I do not see a problem with it. That is exactly what the thing is designed to do and what UL listed it to do.

How is that any different than the many coffee makers that have the timer built into the coffee maker?
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I first came across this ?safety concern? about two weeks ago. My company bought a new version of a fancy one-cup-at-a-time coffee maker, but kept a smaller coffee pot for the short term. The small one didn?t work the first time I tried to use it. Then someone pointed out that it was plugged into a wall receptacle that has a built-in timer. You have to turn the dial to get power to the receptacle, and the power will go off after this thing times out. I was told that having such a timer was a safety requirement. I was not told how it came to be that the fancy coffee maker is not plugged into that safety outlet. :huh:
 

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
We (Air Force) do not allow coffee makers to be plugged into external timers either, or power strips. I couldn't tell you the reasoning behind it either. :?
 

jtinge

Senior Member
Location
Hampton, VA
Occupation
Sr. Elec. Engr
My concern is not with the use of an external timer, it is taking an industrial timer and attaching flexible cords to it with a plug and receptacle. If the timer, say an Intermatic timer like I have seen used, was installed with permanent wiring methods and fed a branch circuit outlet, I would consider this to be a timer controlled branch circuit. But plugging this timer into a wall outlet then plugging the coffee pot into the timer prevents compliance with our rules that high current heating devices like a coffee pot or microwave have to be plugged directly into a branch circuit outlet.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Huh?

I'm not sure how much of what you say is 'the rule' and how much is how you 'feel' about the rule and its' intent.

An extension cord is an extension cord. A temporary power strip is a temporary power strip. A timer is a timer. An elephant is an elephant. They're all very different things.

Now, one might say that a power strip is simply an extension cord with a bunch of receptacles on the end. I can see where one might wish to eliminate, as much as possible, the use of temporary wiring methods.

Extension cords are available in various wire sizes. I can understand a desire to not use a #18 zip cord with a 15 amp space heater.

Yet, a timer is, well, a timer. It's used to control things - not to bring power to a location . Even if the timer has a cord on it, it's still a timer. Used within the ratings of the timer - not every timer can control 15 amps, motors, or HID lighting- I don't have a problem with a timer being used to time things.

Now, if the timer were being used as an extension cord, then the issue is not the timer, but the use.

Therefore, it's quite possible that the same timer / heater combination would be fine on one side of a room, while improper on another side of that same room. Let's look at two examples.

In the first example, the timer is used to turn the heater on a half-hour before the workers arrive, and ensuere that no one forgets to turn it off at the end of the day. I see no issue, even if the timer has a cord on it.

In the second example, the cord for the heater won't reach the spot where they want to place the heater. In that case, someone finds a corded timer and uses it to 'extend' the reach of the power cord. They plug it in when they arrive and unplug when they go. Now, under the rules you described, you have an 'extension cord issue.'
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I don't see the isue with plug strips as long as they are rated for the load.
otherwise what is the use of them being able to manufacture them?
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Think legacy and confusion:

Once upon a time the NEC frowned on extension cords of any type.
Came and went.
Many small appliances state in the safety instructions to never use an extension cord of any type.
Sued because peeps snagged the extra length of cord so now the cords are 18" short.
Many dorms forbid heating appliances because peeps can be careless.
Before auto-shutoff coffee-makers enough students set fire to their rooms to set the policy.
And then the infamous coffee-maker 12A, hair curler 12.5A, refrigerator all plugged into the 12A power strip.
Can I also jump start my car with this?
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Many industrial sites, including mine, have safety regulations that prohibit plugging high current heating devices like coffee pots and microwave ovens into power strips or extension cords and require that they be plugged directly into a wall outlet. It's pretty common, however, to see commercial coffee pots plugged into external cord connected timers. This seems to violate the spirit of not plugging the coffee pot directly into a wall outlet, however I have not found any guidance on or prohibitions against using external cord connected timers in this fashion. Most of the external timers I've seen used for coffee pots seem to be industrial timers with a flexible cord and plug added after the fact. Since this is not a UL listed assembly I can easily argue against its use. But are there UL listed cord connected timers that can be used for coffee pots and would there use be considered similar to using an extension cord or power strip? Do any of you have safety regulations that address external timers on coffee pots and if so what are they?

I wish that was the worst thing I saw day to day. I would not give this a second thought. I see splices in walls, open j boxes with wirenuts falling off, receptacles tapped from range outlets, doorbell wire used for lights & receptacles, receptacles hanging out of the wall, still being used, etc, etc.
 
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