2011 NEC 210.12(B)

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Riograndeelectric

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question.

(" In any area specified in 210.12(A) where branch- circuit wirng is modified,replaced, or extended, the branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following")

the NEC seems vague on this article. seems to me that 210.12(A) is talking about branch ciruit wiring only .If I am doing a service change this would be considerd as modification and or replacement . CAFCI protection would be required for branch circuits listed in 210.12(A) although the branch circuit wiring in mitself is not being alterd ?


What if you are changing out the Branch circuit protection- circuit breaker on non grounding circuits (2 wire circuits) with GFCI breakers would the circuit now require to also have to be protected by an CAFCI.
 
I am in the middle of a job where the original breaker panel is an indoor panel mounted outdoors. A new panel is being added in the new garage.

I am going to splice all the existing circuits and feed them from the new panel. I don't know what the inspector is going to say about AFCI's since I am not extending those circuits, only refeeding them IMO.

I am using this as a test for how the rest of the year will go, so we will have a long, friendly conversation.
 
jumper said:
AFCI breakers/protection is not required for panel up-grades. (Although Bob/Iwire incorrectly thinks so)
Click to expand...

Skimming through that thread, it appears he said that if new cabling were installed then AFCIs may be required, but a straight-up panel change was not mentioned (reading fast).

I'll admit, I didn't read 210.12 that way before reading that thread, but I can understand the interpretation. Two valid interpretations make it a 90.4 issue, IMO.

Around here, you have to add an outlet, not change cabling, to kick in AFCI protection, IIRC.
 
This ROP and panel statement settles the issue for me.


2-186 Log #4373 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.12(C) (New) )
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Alan Manche, Square D Company/Schneider Electric
Recommendation: Add a new 210.12(C) to read as follows:
(C) AFCI Protection in Existing Installations. Where an existing dwelling
unit panelboard containing 15 or 20 ampere 120V branch circuit overcurrent
devices is upgraded or replaced, AFCIs shall be installed to meet the
requirements of 210.12(B). Only those branch circuits that are part of the
upgraded or replaced panelboard are required to comply with this section.

Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel would like more experience to be obtained
regarding the installation of combination type AFCIs in new dwellings before
requiring the installation of combination type AFCIs in the wide variety of
existing dwellings that will have numerous different wiring configurations.
 
George Stolz said:
Skimming through that thread, it appears he said that if new cabling were installed then AFCIs may be required, but a straight-up panel change was not mentioned (reading fast).

I'll admit, I didn't read 210.12 that way before reading that thread, but I can understand the interpretation. Two valid interpretations make it a 90.4 issue, IMO.

Around here, you have to add an outlet, not change cabling, to kick in AFCI protection, IIRC.
Click to expand...

Twoskinsoneman said:
Yeah I took a quick look at it. I don't see where he said a simple panel change invoked that rule. Only if adding wire.
Click to expand...

Okay, you are correct, he only says any new wire installed must be AFCI protected. Ever do a panel up grade with out a splice? Not common in my experience.
 
Bob has said new panel and technically if you extend the wire in the panel to reach a breaker then he considers it an extension and afci is required. Obviously the code is not clear on that which pushed me to make a proposal to this section. To me if an outlet, switch or any device is added to the circuit then afci is needed. I doubt it will get accepted but who knows. Probably an AHJ call as it is now.
 
The way I read 2011 NEC 210.12(A) is any modification would require Arc Fault Protection. but code says if wirng is modifyed?

this is my confusion on 2011 210.12(A)

under 2008 NEC we were allwoed to do service change withput having to add arc faults
I think the 2011 code has changed the way arc fault protection for exsting circuits is required.
 
Riograndeelectric said:
The way I read 2011 NEC 210.12(A) is any modification would require Arc Fault Protection. but code says if wirng is modifyed?

this is my confusion on 2011 210.12(A)

under 2008 NEC we were allwoed to do service change withput having to add arc faults
I think the 2011 code has changed the way arc fault protection for exsting circuits is required.
Click to expand...

It is 210.12(B) and the word "modified" is pretty vague and useless.

(B) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications — Dwelling
Units. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), where
branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended, the
branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:
(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of
the branch circuit
(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the
first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit



See post #8.
 
FWIW, I say forget what you read here and talk to your local AHJ.

For example, my local AHJ has made clear that he expects to see AFCI breakers on a certain upcoming service change. Mind you, context matters: he's also aware that this service change will be followed by a complete re-wire, done one room at a time. I can't really fault his reasoning. The new service will feed an old panel during construction; as new circuits are run, they will be tied into the new service with AFCI's.

My point is that specific job details might alter the answer to the question. Better to ask than to argue.
 
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