400 amp service equipment question

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ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
I am looking for ideas on a 400 amp service. I want to install a 400 amp panel to feed individual grain bins, plus I want to have a 200 amp breaker in it to feed out to another panel in a shop with living quarters in it. I was thinking of coming off the utility pole and going underground to an equipment rack. I was thinking I'd put a pole top disconnect on the utility pole or possibly a ground level rainproof 400 amp disconnnect. Any opinions on this? At the equipment rack, I would like to put a 400 amp rainproof breaker panel and feed out to individual grain bins with motors. I would also like to put a 200 amp breaker and run out to the shop that has living quarters in it. Does Square D make a 400 amp rainproof breaker panel? I can't seem to find one in my book. Any other ideas on how to do this would be appreciated too. I could get by with a 200 amp service for the shop and one for the bins, but the owner would like to have it big enough for future expansion and right now he potentially could run about 190 amps. That's why I thought a 400 amp service that feeds everything would work out the best. I tried to attach a word doc. with a drawing showing what I'm working on. I hope it shows up.

Thanks for any help.
 

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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
So the 190 amps if for the bins and the house? If so 400 would be good. You can get an all in one 400 amp combo meter . This has the panel and meter as one piece of equipment- no service conductors to run. From there you would feed the buildings. Each building would need their own panel, unless they only have 2 circuits max of a mwbc run to them.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
So the 190 amps if for the bins and the house? If so 400 would be good. You can get an all in one 400 amp combo meter . This has the panel and meter as one piece of equipment- no service conductors to run. From there you would feed the buildings. Each building would need their own panel, unless they only have 2 circuits max of a mwbc run to them.

The 190 amps is only for the bins. That's why I'd like to find a 400 amp breaker panel. That way I wouldn't be pushing a 200 amp panel so close to it's limit, plus he would have the capacity to add equipment later. In addition to the 190 amps, I would have the shop/house with a 200 amp panel feeding off of this.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
In California here i would use a 400 amp All in One. It has 2- 200 amp mains. The all in one panel has a 30/40 bus built right into it.

I'd like to find a panel only without the meter socket. The utility charges a lot for line extensions or installing conductors to a meter.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If you have 190 amps to the bins and run 200 amps to the house then depending on the load to the house you don't have much room for expansion of more bins.

Or am I misunderstanding that you have 400 to the bins and 200 to the house?
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
You're planning single phase for all of this?
The grain bin motors aren't 3 phase?
Does your utility require terminal bypass meterbases for ag?
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
Tax Break?

Tax Break?

I wovld have two meters one for the eqvipement and one for the living qvarters. That way yov covld break ovt the living expenses seperate from the ag expenses. Jvst a thovgth.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
If you have 190 amps to the bins and run 200 amps to the house then depending on the load to the house you don't have much room for expansion of more bins.

Or am I misunderstanding that you have 400 to the bins and 200 to the house?

The bins have the potential to run 190 amps, but most likely won't be all on at the same time. I was thinking the combined load from the house and the bins on a 400 amp panel would be ok, since the house would not be much of a load most of the time. Am I thinking this out right? If the house was drawing 70 amps or so, the 400 amp panel would still have 330 amp capability if needed. Right?
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
You're planning single phase for all of this?
The grain bin motors aren't 3 phase?
Does your utility require terminal bypass meterbases for ag?

The utility supplies the metering. They will put up a transformer rated metering setup (Form 3S meter) and just CT meter it. I would need to provide a disconnecting means.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
I wovld have two meters one for the eqvipement and one for the living qvarters. That way yov covld break ovt the living expenses seperate from the ag expenses. Jvst a thovgth.

I'm not sure how he does it now, but the house and farm are all on one meter. The utility charges $30 per meter, so he'd have an extra $360 dollars per year in charges with an extra meter.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I'm not sure how he does it now, but the house and farm are all on one meter. The utility charges $30 per meter, so he'd have an extra $360 dollars per year in charges with an extra meter.

Yes but he could deduct the bill for the farm more accurately. As I understand it the meter is mounted to the trany and from there you are responsible for the wiring to your panel. Is that correct? It sounds like you are stuck with getting a 400 amp panel- I would be surprised if Sq. D didn't make a 400 amp WP panel.
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
Yes but he could deduct the bill for the farm more accurately. As I understand it the meter is mounted to the trany and from there you are responsible for the wiring to your panel. Is that correct? It sounds like you are stuck with getting a 400 amp panel- I would be surprised if Sq. D didn't make a 400 amp WP panel.

The utility will set a separate meter pole next to the xfmr pole and run conductors to it. From there I will have to provide the conductors and all equipment.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The utility will set a separate meter pole next to the xfmr pole and run conductors to it. From there I will have to provide the conductors and all equipment.

Can you add more structure to there pole and mount 2-200 amp panel, one on each side of the meter?
 

ammklq143

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrician
Can you add more structure to there pole and mount 2-200 amp panel, one on each side of the meter?

Yeah, that could work. I'll have to think about it. I was hoping to get a 400 amp panel with spaces, but I've looked and can't find one. They make an indoor one, but no rainproof one.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm not sure how he does it now, but the house and farm are all on one meter. The utility charges $30 per meter, so he'd have an extra $360 dollars per year in charges with an extra meter.

Here in Nebraska there is no sales tax on the electric bill for the farm but there is for the house, May be worth the extra meter charge if enough power is used. Plus like Dennis said for accounting reasons.

Yes but he could deduct the bill for the farm more accurately. As I understand it the meter is mounted to the trany and from there you are responsible for the wiring to your panel. Is that correct? It sounds like you are stuck with getting a 400 amp panel- I would be surprised if Sq. D didn't make a 400 amp WP panel.

Yeah, that could work. I'll have to think about it. I was hoping to get a 400 amp panel with spaces, but I've looked and can't find one. They make an indoor one, but no rainproof one.

Square does not have a 400 amp panel listed with the small panels but you can get 400 and 600 amp panels in NEMA 1, or 3R, 5, 12 enclosures in the NQOD series that accept plug on or bolt on breakers, in single phase or three phase.

Most of the bins I am hooking up anymore are three phase and probably 75% or more of them are 480 volt. Single phase just doesn't cut it with todays equipment anymore. Farming is not as much a small family operation anymore. The facilities I work on a lot lately are more of a small industrial site. 400 amp 3 phase 480 volt services are kind of common. I like it in part because the fact that it is 480 volt it keeps (some) people that don't need to mess with it out of the equipment. All farmers think they are qualified on 120/240 single phase to do almost anything.
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
Glad the carbon paper and onion skin days are gone.

Glad the carbon paper and onion skin days are gone.

Yes they did on the last microsoft update.

Once again thanks to bill gates my life gets interesting.

Now where is that cheese at the end of this maze....:happysad:
 
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