number of outlets on circuit

[bulldog]

An electrician added 11 outlets in a basement off the smoke detector circuit. There are only 6 smokes and 3 basememnt lights on the circuit.

An inspector failed a job, because he stated according to NEC Table 210.24 only 14 taps are allowed on a 15 amp circuit.
He explained that the 14 taps means total number of outlets on the circuit .
Is the inspector correct ?

 

[jumper]

Nope.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

An electrician added 11 outlets in a basement off the smoke detector circuit. There are only 6 smokes and 3 basememnt lights on the circuit.

An inspector failed a job, because he stated according to NEC Table 210.24 only 14 taps are allowed on a 15 amp circuit.
He explained that the 14 taps means total number of outlets on the circuit .
Is the inspector correct ?

HAHA. First of all the 14 in that table is clearly defined as a wire size. NOTHING to do with # of outlets.
Secondly he needs to learn the definition of a tap.

The inspector is not right...
Also I have a hard time believing any real inspector would say that....Am I being punk'd?

 

[donf]

Outlets

Outlets

If this is a residential unit, the inspector is incorrect. No limit is given for residential units, however, that does not mean you can exceed the volt/amp rating of the circuit. Commercial does have limits.

That's planning, the NEC is safety.

Just curious, did he happen to show you where in the NEC this is stated or maybe in a State or County overide of the NEC?

Don

 

[480sparky]

Where do they come from?

 

[jumper]

Ken, link at bottom does not work .

 

[cowboyjwc]

Where do they come from?

According to most of you guys, they're EC's that couldn't make it. :roll:

Or retired plumbers.

 

[infinity]

I'm afraid to ask where this job is. :roll:

Sorry to say but someone needs a refresher course. That table refers to, among other things, minimum conductor size:

Conductors (min. size):
Circuit wires1

Taps

Fixture wires and cords
? see 240.5

 

[ActionDave]

Where do they come from?

I don't know, but I am quite convinced on where they need to go.(insert emoticon of flames and sulfur gases here)

 

[jumper]

I don't know, but I am quite convinced on where they need to go.(insert emoticon of flames and sulfur gases here)

 

[bulldog]

If this is a residential unit, the inspector is incorrect. No limit is given for residential units, however, that does not mean you can exceed the volt/amp rating of the circuit. Commercial does have limits.

That's planning, the NEC is safety.

Just curious, did he happen to show you where in the NEC this is stated or maybe in a State or County overide of the NEC?


When the inspector was asked, he sited the table . I asked another inspector and was told that this table is not to be confused with the taps rules and the tables states that for a 15 amp circuit the max numer of outlets is 14. The state or county does not different rules.
This is the first time, this table had ever been sited and the electricain failed an inspection because of it.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

When the inspector was asked, he sited the table . I asked another inspector and was told that....the tables states that for a 15 amp circuit the max numer of outlets is 14.

Two inspectors spouting the same jibberish?

I call B.S.

 

[bulldog]

So now I understand this situation. I will contact the inspector again and explain that this table is only for size wire allowed for a tap off of an circuit

 

[Little Bill]

So now I understand this situation. I will contact the inspector again and explain that this table is only for size wire allowed for a tap off of an circuit

It's not only taps off the branch circuit, it's the size of the conductors for each branch circuits based on the OCPD. The taps are there to show the minimum size tap conductor off a given branch circuit. example: 50A range circuit, you could have 12AWG for the tap to connect to the range, but the conductor for the branch circuit would need to be 6AWG.

Using the inspectors line of thought you could have 6 circuit wires and 12 taps off this circuit.:happyno:

 

[kwired]

It's not only taps off the branch circuit, it's the size of the conductors for each branch circuits based on the OCPD. The taps are there to show the minimum size tap conductor off a given branch circuit. example: 50A range circuit, you could have 12AWG for the tap to connect to the range, but the conductor for the branch circuit would need to be 6AWG.

Using the inspectors line of thought you could have 6 circuit wires and 12 taps off this circuit.:happyno:

Where a tap is allowed it can not feed a receptacle outlet. In the case of the range you could not tap the 50 amp circuit with 12 AWG and end it in a 50 amp receptacle, the 12 AWG would have to end at the range itself, and the range would have to be less capacity than the ampacity of the 12 AWG.

Running a 20 amp conductor from another receptacle or junction box that is on a 20 amp circuit is not a tap it is just an extension of the 20 amp circuit.

The word 'tap' is sometimes used a little loose in this trade. With common terminology it may not be wrong but using NEC terminology it really means a conductor that has overcurrent protection on the supply side that is higher than the ampacity of the conductor.

 

[charlie b]

Commercial does have limits.

No it doesn't. But that is an old debate that never reached a resolution. Let's not side track this discussion to open that debate again, but I had to at least take issue with the claim.

 

[tom baker]

Respectfully point out to the inspector the difference between an outlet and a receptacle...

 

[Little Bill]

Where a tap is allowed it can not feed a receptacle outlet. In the case of the range you could not tap the 50 amp circuit with 12 AWG and end it in a 50 amp receptacle, the 12 AWG would have to end at the range itself, and the range would have to be less capacity than the ampacity of the 12 AWG.

Running a 20 amp conductor from another receptacle or junction box that is on a 20 amp circuit is not a tap it is just an extension of the 20 amp circuit.

The word 'tap' is sometimes used a little loose in this trade. With common terminology it may not be wrong but using NEC terminology it really means a conductor that has overcurrent protection on the supply side that is higher than the ampacity of the conductor.

Taps weren't my main point, but I said and was talking about the tap/cord to the range.
I was pointing out where the inspector was reading the table wrong.
There is terminology in the code about a tap that isn't the definition of tap given elsewhere. I don't have time now to find it.

 

[tkb]

Does Table 210.24 allow a #14 wire to be tapped of a #12 wire 20 amp circuit to make the connection from a splice in a box to the receptacle?
About 6-8" of #14 wire.

 

[david luchini]

Does Table 210.24 allow a #14 wire to be tapped of a #12 wire 20 amp circuit to make the connection from a splice in a box to the receptacle?
About 6-8" of #14 wire.

No it does not. As kwired pointed out, a branch circuit tap cannot supply a receptacle outlet. See 210.19(A)(3), Exc No. 1 and 210.19(A)(4), Exc No. 1 for allowable branch circuit taps.