Voltage drop at 1600'

Status
Not open for further replies.
I want to run a 12-2 UF for 1600' to run a 15A, 120v, variable load circuit to a shed. I have 220v available. Can I use a step down transformer with a variable tap? If I step down to 120v, the drop will be a lot, so can I start with a tap of more than 120v? And do they make such a thing?
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
At that distance with a #12, you would have to start at least with stepping up to 480, then step back down to 120 at the end. I havn't checked, but I think UF is rated for 600 volt, but I would verify it before I tried it.
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
You probably need more like a #2 at that voltage, if you ran 15 amps on a #12 that far, you'd lose a third of the voltage.

Better look into other options somehow. Bigger wire, shorter distance, step-up to a considerably higher voltage, new service . . .

Like hillbilly1 suggested, stepping up helps some, but even @ 480 your loss is about 17%.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
At that distance #12 on 480 volts will be just over 6.4 % VD, #6cu on 240 volts will get you 4.2% @ 7.5 amps which is not bad.
You will need to price out the cost of two 2kva 120/240 to 480 volt transformers and 1600 feet #12 verses 4800 feet of #6cu or #4 AL.

The reason for the 4800 feet is you will no longer be able to use the #10 EGC in a 6/2 UF cable for a equipment ground because of 250.122(B) but 4/4/4 aluminum URD might be a viable option at 4.3 VD but you will still need one transformer at the end.

http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/vd_calculatoradv.htm

Two things never use a muiti-tap transformer or buck and boost to overcome voltage drop if the load current can very, doing so can damage equipment when the load lightens up,
 
Last edited:

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
At that distance #12 on 480 volts will be just over 5.5 % VD, #6cu on 240 volts will get you 4.2% @ 7.5 amps which is not bad.
You will need to price out the cost of two 2kva 120/240 to 480 volt transformers and 1600 feet #12 verses 4800 feet of #6cu.

The reason for the 4800 feet is you will no longer be able to use the #10 EGC in a 8/2 UF cable for a equipment ground because of 250.122(B) but 4/4/4 aluminum might be a viable option at 4.3 VD but you will still need one transformer at the end.

http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/vd_calculatoradv.htm

Two things never use a muiti-tap transformer or buck and boost to overcome voltage drop if the load current can very, doing so can damage equipment when the load lightens up,

'K, I see that I didn't reset my current when I changed my voltages. These numbers look a little better.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Larger conductor (especially if you use an aluminum conductor) will likely cost less than a transformer at each end. You still have to dig the same trench no matter what size the conductor is (unless you are talking about multiple 3 or 4 inch raceways then you need a bigger trench).

The next thing that will happen is you will get limited power to this building then they will decide to add more load for some reason. Burying a raceway (like maybe 2" PVC) will allow for more easy upgrade when this happens.
 

broadgage

Senior Member
Location
London, England
One option might be to use a voltage regulator, these consist of a multi tapped transformer with the correct tapping automaticly connected via quick acting circuitry.
Such devices can correct for both low and high input voltages.

The UK spec ones will give a 230 volt output (plus or minus 6%) from an input that varies from 190 volts to 270 volts.

Start with about 270 volts, easily obtained from 240 with a buck.boost transformer.
Off load 270 will be fine at the far end since it is within the range acceptable to the regulator.
The on load voltage can drop as low as 190, and still give an acceptable voltage output.
A second transformer could step this down to 120.

For limited use, this should work fine.
For a long-hour load though remember that the energy wasted in the cable costs money, a larger cable might pay for itself in a few years.

Other options include not useing utility power at all, but purchasing a generator, which if portable could be used elswhere.
If relatively large loads such as power tools with large starting currents are to be used, but only occaisionly, then it might be worth the use of a large inverter and a battery bank.
Charge the battery from the 240 volt supply useing a switched mode charger with a wide input range, or use PV modules.

Going down the PV and battery route has the merit of not paying forever for the iron losses in at least 2 transformers.
Off load losses could be 120 watts, or say 1,000 KWH a year. Depending on power prices, that might cost $250 a year, forever before any energy is usefully consumed. Add to that perhaps 25% losses on load due to copper losses in the transformers and cable.
Considering that PV also saves the cost of trenching, it might be economic.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
One option might be to use a voltage regulator, these consist of a multi tapped transformer with the correct tapping automaticly connected via quick acting circuitry.
Such devices can correct for both low and high input voltages.

The UK spec ones will give a 230 volt output (plus or minus 6%) from an input that varies from 190 volts to 270 volts.

Start with about 270 volts, easily obtained from 240 with a buck.boost transformer.
Off load 270 will be fine at the far end since it is within the range acceptable to the regulator.
The on load voltage can drop as low as 190, and still give an acceptable voltage output.
A second transformer could step this down to 120.

For limited use, this should work fine.
For a long-hour load though remember that the energy wasted in the cable costs money, a larger cable might pay for itself in a few years.

Other options include not useing utility power at all, but purchasing a generator, which if portable could be used elswhere.
If relatively large loads such as power tools with large starting currents are to be used, but only occaisionly, then it might be worth the use of a large inverter and a battery bank.
Charge the battery from the 240 volt supply useing a switched mode charger with a wide input range, or use PV modules.

Going down the PV and battery route has the merit of not paying forever for the iron losses in at least 2 transformers.
Off load losses could be 120 watts, or say 1,000 KWH a year. Depending on power prices, that might cost $250 a year, forever before any energy is usefully consumed. Add to that perhaps 25% losses on load due to copper losses in the transformers and cable.
Considering that PV also saves the cost of trenching, it might be economic.

Is cost of all that worth it vs. just using larger conductors in the first place?
 
Thanks!

Thanks!

I want to run a 12-2 UF for 1600' to run a 15A, 120v, variable load circuit to a shed. I have 220v available. Can I use a step down transformer with a variable tap? If I step down to 120v, the drop will be a lot, so can I start with a tap of more than 120v? And do they make such a thing?

I thank you all for the very helpful input, it solves my problem and can see the solution. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top