NEC 505.8(K)

[erickench]

I'm looking at the 2008 NEC and this is what I'm reading:

Where such a system is installed, equipment specified in NEC 505.8(I)(1), (I)(2), or (I)(3) shall be permitted.

Because of changes made in the 2008 NEC, this little problem was neglected. The referenced sections should read NEC 505.8(K)(1), (K)(2), or (K)(3). Does anyone know if the problem was corrected in the 2011 NEC?

 

[rbalex]

It has been properly coordinated. It is now Section 505.8(I).

 

[charlie b]

I am not sure what book you are looking at, Eric. I gather that the topic of interest is "Combustible Gas Detection System." Here is what appears in the books at my desk:

• In the 2005 NEC, this was in 505.8(I), and the sub articles were 505.8(I)(1), 505.8(I)(2), and 505.8(I)(3).
• In the 2008 NEC, this was in 505.8(K), and the sub articles were 505.8(K)(1), 505.8(K)(2), and 505.8(K)(3).
• In the 2011 NEC, this is in 505.8(I) again, and the sub articles are 505.8(I)(1), 505.8(I)(2), and 505.8(I)(3).

 

[rbalex]

The earlier 2008 printings had Section 505.8(K) referencing 505.8(I)(1), 505.8(I)(2), and 505.8(I)(3). It was corrected in the 2008 errata.

 

[charlie b]

Thanks, Bob. It makes sense now. I infer that by the time I had bought a copy of 2008, it was fixed.

 

[erickench]

Well all I have is a basic copy of the 2008 NEC. I didn't see any errata. Tell me is the same true for NEC 504.30(A)(1)? That section references 503.10(B)(3) instead of 503.10(A)(3) which would be consistent. Also, 505.15(C)(1)(g) is referenced instead of 505.15(C)(1)(h). The sections should be referencing rules pertaining to nonincendive field wiring.

 

[charlie b]

If you are talking about the third "Informational Note," the problem with the citation of 503.10(B)(3) is still in the 2008, and was made worse in the 2011 (the "(A)(3)" became "(A)(4)" and it wasn't picked up then either). The issue with the citation of 505.15 has been fixed. Since I infer that you do not have a copy of the 2011, I would be glad to submit a proposal for the 2014. We only have about a week left to get any proposals submitted.

 

[erickench]

If you are talking about the third "Informational Note," the problem with the citation of 503.10(B)(3) is still in the 2008, and was made worse in the 2011 (the "(A)(3)" became "(A)(4)" and it wasn't picked up then either). The issue with the citation of 505.15 has been fixed. Since I infer that you do not have a copy of the 2011, I would be glad to submit a proposal for the 2014. We only have about a week left to get any proposals submitted.

What do you mean (A)(3) became (A)(4)?

 

[charlie b]

What do you mean (A)(3) became (A)(4)?

They inserted a new paragraph 503.10(A)(1), "General," and that changed the numbering of the subsequent paragraphs.

 

[erickench]

They inserted a new paragraph 503.10(A)(1), "General," and that changed the numbering of the subsequent paragraphs.

If I wanted to make a proposal would it be feasible to change 503.10(B)(3) to 503.10(4)? 503.10(B)(3) doesn't seem to be the proper reference as given in 504.30(A)(1).

 

[rbalex]

If I wanted to make a proposal would it be feasible to 503.10(B)(3) to 503.10(4)? 503.10(B)(3) doesn't seem to be the proper reference as given in 504.30(A)(1).

You can make any Proposal you want, but it must reflect a change to the 2011 (not 2008) NEC.

 

[charlie b]

I have sent in a proposal to correct the error in the 2011 article 504.30(A)(1), third Informational Note, revising "503.10(B)(3)" to read "503.10(A)(4)." I hope I got all that text right. The numbers start to jumble after a while. :happyyes:

 

[erickench]

Okay, I'll just throw away my proposal then. You see I have Mike Holt's Illustrated Changes for the 2011 NEC. I always check with this book. Unfortunately not all the changes are presented in the book.

Now here's another one. NEC 501.10(B)(3) references 505.15(C)(1)(g) instead of 505.15(C)(1)(h). What does the 2011 NEC say? It's in the same NEC section 504.30(A)(1) Exception No. 4 FPN.

 

[erickench]

Sorry, I got a little confused. I should've purchased a 2011 NEC. I meant to say 504.30(A)(1) Exception No. 4 FPN references 505.15(C)(1)(g) instead of 505.15(C)(1)(h). What does the 2011 NEC say?

 

[rbalex]

Sorry, I got a little confused. I should've purchased a 2011 NEC. I meant to say 504.30(A)(1) Exception No. 4 FPN references 505.15(C)(1)(g) instead of 505.15(C)(1)(h). What does the 2011 NEC say?

Some FYIs:

• You can read (but little else) the 2011 NEC here. It's painfull to use but the full text is there and it's legal to use.
• Most editorial errors can be corrected without a formal Proposal. Simply contact the Secretary, Standards Counsel.

As before, the error is still there and worse since it now refers to intrisic safety and not nonincendive. Most references to nonincendive appear to have been removed in Art 505[2011]. Technically, even though it is mentioned in the 2008 and previous editions of Art 505, nonincendive is not recognized in Zone classified locations; i.e., it is not a recognized protection technique in 505.8 and there is no Zone marking for it in 505.9(C). Nonincendive is (sort of) indirectly acceptable through 505.9(C)(1)[Fifteen years ago, I told CMP14 this kind of stuff would cause confusion]

 

[erickench]

Thanks very much. I was using that web page but I lost it. Thanks for helping me find it again.