150 AMP SERVICE UPGRADE MAIN WATER FEED FROM STREET IS PLASTIC AND CHANGES TO COPPER

[ELECTRICERIC101]

150 AMP SERVICE UPGRADE MAIN WATER FEED FROM STREET IS PLASTIC AND CHANGES TO COPPER WITHIN 3 FEET OF ENTERING DWELLING. WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY TO HOOK UP GEC TO COPPER PIPE IF AT ALL? I HAVE 2 8' GROUND RODS 6' APART AND THE HOT AND COLD WATER BONDED AT THE WATER HEATER. THERE IS NO WATER METER.ALL DETAILS WILL HELP I HAVE TRIED RESEARCHING NEC AND MANY THREADS WITH NO GOOD DIRECT ANSWERS .THANK YOU IN ADVANCE,ERIC

 

[charlie b]

Let me be the first to say "Welcome to the Forum," and the first to say, "Please turn off the ALL CAPS feature." It makes the post harder to read, and is considered impolite, as though you were SHOUTING at us.

Having said all that, I fear I have to leave for a meeting, and cannot give you any answers. Others will take up the ball from here.

 

[USMC1302]

If the pipe is not 10 feet long in direct contact with the earth, I do not believe it qualifies as an electrode. I'm sure the gurus will set you straight here shortly.

Steve

 

[infinity]

The metal piping system requires bonding at any convenient, accessible point. Take a look at 250.104.

 

[suemarkp]

And note that you still must use a conductor sized per 250.66 even though you are just bonding the water pipe (it is not a ground electrode). The only allowance you get in ground electrode -vs- non-ground electrode water pie is where the wire can attach. Since you only have to bond it, that wire can go anywhere on the piping system (that is metal).

 

[Little Bill]

And note that you still must use a conductor sized per 250.66 even though you are just bonding the water pipe (it is not a ground electrode). The only allowance you get in ground electrode -vs- non-ground electrode water pie is where the wire can attach. Since you only have to bond it, that wire can go anywhere on the piping system (that is metal).

Hopefully a similar question so I don't misdirect the thread. If you were wanting to run an EGC to a 2-wire receptacle/circuit, which the code says is permitted by connecting to any part of the GES, would you be allowed to connect it to a water pipe that is part of the GES anywhere on the pipe? Simply put, you wouldn't have to connect within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. Is this correct?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Sorry...

 

[infinity]

If it isn't metal pipe underground, wouldn't it be covered under 250.104?

Yup, post #4.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Yup, post #4.

OK, I was hoping to have that edited before it was seen. you are too fast... :ashamed1:

 

[infinity]

OK, I was hoping to have that edited before it was seen. you are too fast... :ashamed1:

That's OK, at least we think alike.

 

[Little Bill]

Hopefully a similar question so I don't misdirect the thread. If you were wanting to run an EGC to a 2-wire receptacle/circuit, which the code says is permitted by connecting to any part of the GES, would you be allowed to connect it to a water pipe that is part of the GES anywhere on the pipe? Simply put, you wouldn't have to connect within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. Is this correct?

Bump!

 

[tom baker]

No need for a poll, the NEC is very clear on this type of situation.

 

[ELECTRICERIC101]

Thanks everyone!

 

[dana1028]

Hopefully a similar question so I don't misdirect the thread. If you were wanting to run an EGC to a 2-wire receptacle/circuit, which the code says is permitted by connecting to any part of the GES, would you be allowed to connect it to a water pipe that is part of the GES anywhere on the pipe? Simply put, you wouldn't have to connect within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. Is this correct?

RE: "You wouldn't have to connect within 5' of where the pipe enters the house."

I disagree. The water pipe grounding electrode component exists where there is at least 10' of metal water pipe in the ground UP TO the point 5' inside the building.....after you have exceeded the 5' mark, it is not considered part of the grounding electrode [system]....so, IF you connected to the water pipe [for your EGC connection] further away than 'within 5 ft' then you have not complied with the requirement of bonding to the GES.

IF you are saying you are allowed to connect anywhere on the grounding electrode [e.g. 15 ft. out in the yard where the metal water pipe is in contact with the earth] then I do agree with you.

 

[dana1028]

I HAVE 2 8' GROUND RODS 6' APART AND THE HOT AND COLD WATER BONDED AT THE WATER HEATER. ERIC

Others have already answered this indicating you can connect your 'bond' anywhere on the metal water piping system.

I just want to clarify a point: Your original post indicated you had bonded the hot & cold water pipes at the water heater......that is only 1/2 the job. Because you DO NOT have a metal water pipe electrode on this job you must run a bonding conductor all the way back to the service [or to another electrode] per 250.104.

I bring this up because I have seen a lot of installations with no water pipe electrode and just a bond at the hot/cold at the water heater - no connection back to the service or other electrode.

 

[Little Bill]

RE: "You wouldn't have to connect within 5' of where the pipe enters the house."

I disagree. The water pipe grounding electrode component exists where there is at least 10' of metal water pipe in the ground UP TO the point 5' inside the building.....after you have exceeded the 5' mark, it is not considered part of the grounding electrode [system]....so, IF you connected to the water pipe [for your EGC connection] further away than 'within 5 ft' then you have not complied with the requirement of bonding to the GES.

IF you are saying you are allowed to connect anywhere on the grounding electrode [e.g. 15 ft. out in the yard where the metal water pipe is in contact with the earth] then I do agree with you.

First, this was just a hypothetical question. I wouldn't expect a house that had no, or at least none originally, EGC to have a good connection to a water line anyway. If I were to actually need to add one, I believe it would be almost as easy to just run back to the panel. However, I believe the code could be made clearer on this by just saying you couldn't connect past the 5' from where it enters the house/building for an added EGC. After I first posted this question I found in the handbook where the writers there say to not connect past the 5' line.