Quick connects and stranded wire

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n8welch

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Today I was wirring a 277v ballast that had quick connects. The whips had stranded wire in them. Well I can tell ya first hand that all it takes is one strand not quite making it into the connector to make for a rude awakening. That was my first tangle with 277v. The grounded (neuteral) conductor was already connected and I thought the (hot) was also secure. It happened as I was pushing the wires back into the light....:slaphead::eek:
 
roger

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Why were you working with energized wires?


Roger
 
augie47

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n8welch said:
Today I was wirring a 277v ballast that had quick connects. The whips had stranded wire in them. Well I can tell ya first hand that all it takes is one strand not quite making it into the connector to make for a rude awakening. That was my first tangle with 277v. The grounded (neuteral) conductor was already connected and I thought the (hot) was also secure. It happened as I was pushing the wires back into the light....:slaphead::eek:
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Welcome to the Forum. 277 has a way of getting your attention.

roger said:
Why were you working with energized wires?


Roger
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Roger, I have a lot to learn about 70E (and the NEC also :D ), but I thought one of the "advantages" of the quick connects was to allow you to change ballasts, etc without turning off the entire circuit. As the OP shows, it's certainly not foolproof, but is it considered "energized work" ?
 
roger

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augie47 said:
Roger, I have a lot to learn about 70E (and the NEC also :D ), but I thought one of the "advantages" of the quick connects was to allow you to change ballasts, etc without turning off the entire circuit. As the OP shows, it's certainly not foolproof, but is it considered "energized work" ?
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Gus, I may not fully understand what the OP was doing but in any case, handling live conductors (especially 277/480v) is not something an apprentice should be doing.

Roger
 
augie47

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roger said:
Gus, I may not fully understand what the OP was doing but in any case, handling live conductors (especially 277/480v) is not something an apprentice should be doing.

Roger
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I may be misreading, but it appeared to me that he was using the required disconnect in a fixture to work on the fixture and discovered a live strand.
If that is the case, we have folks with a whole lot less training than an apprentice doing the same every day.
 
don_resqcapt19

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augie47 said:
I may be misreading, but it appeared to me that he was using the required disconnect in a fixture to work on the fixture and discovered a live strand.
If that is the case, we have folks with a whole lot less training than an apprentice doing the same every day.
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As far as I know, none of the disconnects have been listed or tested to be disconnected under load.
 
roger

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augie47 said:
I may be misreading, but it appeared to me that he was using the required disconnect in a fixture to work on the fixture and discovered a live strand.
If that is the case, we have folks with a whole lot less training than an apprentice doing the same every day.
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Gus, with no disrespect intended to the OP, 410.130(G)(3) states that the disconnect is intended for "qualified persons"


(3) Location. The disconnecting means shall be located so as to be accessible to qualified persons before servicing or maintaining the ballast. Where the disconnecting means is external to the luminaire, it shall be a single device, and shall be attached to the luminaire or the luminaire shall be located within sight of the disconnecting means.
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Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.
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I agree that there are multitudes of people with little or no training doing this type of work.


Roger
 
augie47

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roger said:
Gus, with no disrespect intended to the OP, 410.130(G)(3) states that the disconnect is intended for "qualified persons"






I agree that there are multitudes of people with little or no training doing this type of work.


Roger
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Thanks for noting. I failed to read the Article and based my reply on your later statement.
 
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n8welch

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roger said:
Gus, with no disrespect intended to the OP, 410.130(G)(3) states that the disconnect is intended for "qualified persons"






I agree that there are multitudes of people with little or no training doing this type of work.


Roger
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Qualified not certified.
Qualified is being aware of the risks and familiar with what you were working on.
 
kwired

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don_resqcapt19 said:
As far as I know, none of the disconnects have been listed or tested to be disconnected under load.
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Which if true then we must ask -- what is their purpose? If you have to turn off the switch or breaker before disconnecting them you may as well untwist a couple wire connectors while you had the power off like we were supposed to do before these were a requirement:?
 
don_resqcapt19

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kwired said:
Which if true then we must ask -- what is their purpose? If you have to turn off the switch or breaker before disconnecting them you may as well untwist a couple wire connectors while you had the power off like we were supposed to do before these were a requirement:?
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It appears that the UL listing, now says they can be opened under load.
 
dhalleron

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I have only been hit by 277 once back in the late 80's. If I remember right it was kind of like taking a hammer and hitting my thumb as hard as I could...
 
ActionDave

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Sierrasparky said:
Are these ballast disconnects required in ballast change-outs?

Code 2008.
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kwired said:
Nothing in NEC specifically addresses this situation, your local AHJ may address it if they wish to.
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It started in 08 and the language was changed a bit in 11 largely ignored where I live.

410.130 (G)Disconnecting Means.

(1) General. In indoor locations other than dwellings and
associated accessory structures, fluorescent luminaires that
utilize double-ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be
serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either in-
ternal or external to each luminaire. For existing installed
luminaires without disconnecting means, at the time a bal-
last is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed.
The line side terminals of the disconnecting means shall be
guarded.

I put them in when I change the ballast on a recessed can with a four pin compact fluorescent. Funny thing is I never noticed the wording that says they are only required on fixtures on double ended lamps. It's way harder to change a ballast on one of those cans than a lay-in trouffer.
 
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