Single phase power to 3 phase motor

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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Opinions please:
7.5 HP 208/240 3 phase motor driving a recipricating compressor. Only single phase power is available. Would a phase converter or VFD be best? If I use a VFD I save the cost of a seperate starter and seems like a better, cleaner install. Given the type of load, use constant torque? I've never been real impressed with the phase converters I've done.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I'm with Dave.
Just make sure that the VFD, front end particularly, is adequately rated if you're feeding single phase onto a unit designed to operate on three phase.
The input rectifier will use only four of the six diodes and thus each of the four carries a higher average current and the DC link capacitor will be subjected to a greater ripple voltage.
Some are designed to take this into account.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Thanks for the help. Would it also be true that using the VFD that I could ramp up to speed and cut the inrush current? I'm thinking of using a pressure transducer as opposed to an on/off control to vary the speed based on pressure.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Yes you can ramp up the speed. As far as changing speeds to regulate pressure, I would say no. At least I have never seen it. Somebody roust that friendly Brit out of bed, he can tell us.

I have seen many compressors with a by-pass valve rather than a pressure switch, so the compressor runs unloaded until the pressure drops enough. This set up maintains a even pressure.

What kind of compressor is this?
What are you doing in Colorado with a name that closely resembles Texan?
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Yes you can ramp up the speed. As far as changing speeds to regulate pressure, I would say no. At least I have never seen it. Somebody roust that friendly Brit out of bed, he can tell us.

I have seen many compressors with a by-pass valve rather than a pressure switch, so the compressor runs unloaded until the pressure drops enough. This set up maintains a even pressure.

What kind of compressor is this?
What are you doing in Colorado with a name that closely resembles Texan?

Typical shop type. 80 gallon or so tank and pressure switch controlled. One of the reasons I'm asking so many questions is I usually think of VFD's with a centrifugal load as opposed to a positive displacement load as this is.
As far as my handle name...I don't even want to go there...you guys would laugh me out of here.
 

socalelect

Member
Location
so. cal
Yes, you read correctly. We use them more often than phase converters when there is no three phase available. That is not very often, but enough to like using them instead of a phase converter.

how is the efficency compared to a rotary converter for say a 7.5 horse motor
 

stew

Senior Member
When I was in the motor business I sold a ton of rotary phase converters. The only brand I wouls ever reccomend is ARCO roto phase. I sold many of these and installed several on exactly the load you describe. You will get full hp and torque with a rotary unit unlike a capacitor type which may only give you somehwere in the 60% range. I never in all the units we sold over nearly 17 years ever had a problem or warranty issue with these units. If properly installed according to the manufacturers wire size reccomendations these units were trouble free and worked perfectly.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Yes you can ramp up the speed. As far as changing speeds to regulate pressure, I would say no. At least I have never seen it. Somebody roust that friendly Brit out of bed, he can tell us.
Friendly Brit......I like that...:)
We have provided a fair number of variable speed drives for compressors. These have mainly into the petrochem industry. I don't always know what parameter is being regulated - we often supply to a main contractor and don't get involved in the process control side of things. But I do know that pressure is one of the inputs.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Power is power. There are some small losses with both, and both must be sized to handle the load. Which is the most efficient? I donno.
The VSD is in my experience.
With a rotary converter, at least those that I've dealt with, you need a motor and a generator.
The last lot of rotary converters we did were 3-ph 50Hz to 3-ph 60Hz for some equipment from your side of the pond.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
If I may, I think what ActionDave meant in asking what type of compressor was the mechanical design, as in reciprocal, screw, centrifugal etc. If it is a 7-1/2HP basic shop compressor, I'd guess there is a 90+% chance it is recip. You can reduce the speed of a recip, but you can quickly run into trouble if it uses a mechanical oil pump or splash lubrication, because with reduced speed you get reduced oil flow and can damage the machine. So you must thoroughly investigate your compressor before reducing the speed and if it does have an electric oil pump, make sure it can be powered separately from the compressor motor as well.

For 7-1/2HP you must double the size of the VFD for the reasons Besoeker mentioned, so you need to buy a 15HP 230V drive to do phase conversion. Be careful in that there are a few brands of VFD that do not allow for single phase input because they have phase loss protection that cannot be disabled. If your vendor doesn't know, you can look in the operating manual to see if there is a fault code for phase loss and if there is, then is there a way to disable it. If you can't determine it, don't use that brand.

Also keep in mind that most compressors start unloaded via an unload valve but again if that valve is powered from the same line power as the compressor, ramping the compressor voltage may cause that valve to fail to open and your compressor will not start.

So bottom line it can be done, but you must do it carefully with full knowledge of what you have and all of the ramifications.

Second issue, a VFD as a phase converter has very little waste (losses) compared to an RPC, which can have 20% losses or more. Also a capacitor type phase adder reduces the motor capacity by about 30% so you would have to start off with a 10HP motor at least if you wanted to go that route.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If 7.5 HP and soft start is not necessary why not just change the motor to a single phase motor? That will cost less than most any other option.

I would not recommend slowing speed down on most reciprocating compressors unless the lubrication system of the compressor was designed for it. Most are not AFAIK.
 
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