Waterline @ Main Service Not Available

[nshafer]

Have a 600 A 120/240 V Single Phase electrical service installed in an exterior 3 sided concrete pit/retaining wall structure that includes a natural gas generator. We have a U-Fer ground wire extending from the pit structure to the main service disconnect nuetral bar/ground bar and a ground wire sized for the 600 A service from a driven ground rod to the nuetral/ground bar at the main disconnect.
The pit does not have water service to it.
An underground 200 Amp 4 wire electrical feeder runs from the pit to a dwelling unit 60' away.
The electrical inspector wants a ground wire ran from the dwelling unit waterline all the way back to the main disconnect's neutral/ground bar @ the pit. I disagree please advise. The pit will feed power to at least (2) other structures.

 

[augie47]

sidenote: Are you in violation of 225.30 ??

To address your question: If you meet the requirements of 250.32 and connect your grounding condcutor to the water line that should be the only water connection required in my opinion.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is an interesting situation. I agree with Gus (the old guy above) that the inspector is require more than necessary but the code requires a #4 to the water pipe at the dwelling. If the feeder to the house only has a #6 EGC as req. by 250.122 is that a violation? Remember the grounds and neutrals are separated at the dwelling. Would a #4 be needed as the EGC?

 

[hurk27]

Have a 600 A 120/240 V Single Phase electrical service installed in an exterior 3 sided concrete pit/retaining wall structure that includes a natural gas generator. We have a U-Fer ground wire extending from the pit structure to the main service disconnect nuetral bar/ground bar and a ground wire sized for the 600 A service from a driven ground rod to the nuetral/ground bar at the main disconnect.
The pit does not have water service to it.
An underground 200 Amp 4 wire electrical feeder runs from the pit to a dwelling unit 60' away.
The electrical inspector wants a ground wire ran from the dwelling unit waterline all the way back to the main disconnect's neutral/ground bar @ the pit. I disagree please advise. The pit will feed power to at least (2) other structures.

I think many miss the wording in the first sentence of 250.50:

All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together to form the grounding electrode system.

Grounding electrodes are separate systems at each structure, there is no code that requires us to bond separate electrode systems together from separate structures, even if they are on the same property served by the same service, the only requirement is to run an EGC as required in 250.32

As your statement of sizing the GEC to the rod type electrode from a 600 amp service, 250.66(A) only requires a #6 no matter what the size of the service is.

 

[ActionDave]

I think many miss the wording in the first sentance of 250.50.....

Or maybe he is using that word "present" to make his case. This was just recently argued here in another thread.

 

[hurk27]

Or maybe he is using that word "present" to make his case. This was just recently argued here in another thread.

Using the word "present" without the rest of the sentence "at each structure served" would say this inspector needs to learn proper English reading skills.

To back up this view is 250.58:

250.58 Common Grounding Electrode. Where an ac system
is connected to a grounding electrode in or at a building
or structure, the same electrode shall be used to ground
conductor enclosures and equipment in or on that building
or structure.

This wording clearly show that each electrode system is a separate system "that are
present at each building or structure served" and there is no wording that requires separate "electrode systems" to be bonded together other then what is required in 250.32 via an EGC?

 

[cadpoint]

This is an interesting situation.

OK, it is! I've been trying to figure out how 225.30 was picked out of the OP!

:ashamed1:

 

[hurk27]

OK, it is! I've been trying to figure out how 225.30 was picked out of the OP!

:ashamed1:

I think it was just a question without saying it applies, I too didn't see anything in the OP that would indicate it would, but you never know if there is more then one feed to a building?

 

[ActionDave]

Using the word "present" without the rest of the sentence "at each structure served" would say this inspector needs to learn proper English reading skills.

To back up this view is 250.58:


This wording clearly show that each electrode system is a separate system "that are
present at each building or structure served" and there is no wording that requires separate "electrode systems" to be bonded together other then what is required in 250.32 via an EGC?

You get no argument from me, but that word "present" is not strictly defined. It was added so that there would be no excuse for not using rebar for a CCE but sooner or later the Law of Unintended Consequences rears its head.

The water pipe thread is still open and I am not trying to threadjack. So merge, alter, delete, or let stand as you see fit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is an interesting situation. I agree with Gus (the old guy above) that the inspector is require more than necessary but the code requires a #4 to the water pipe at the dwelling. If the feeder to the house only has a #6 EGC as req. by 250.122 is that a violation? Remember the grounds and neutrals are separated at the dwelling. Would a #4 be needed as the EGC?

I guess this is no different than feeding a garage with a 60 amp feeder and still having to run #8 or 6 to the rod. I guess I answered my own question.