Burned / Pitted bus bar in Resi panel Complete Replacement required?

[titan1021]

I had a former employer (EC) that required that we sell a service change anytime we came across a service panel that had burning and pitting on the bus bar, at the breaker connection point. We were prohibited from doing any work on the panel once we discovered burning or pitting on the bus bar. We removed the damaged breaker and advised the homeowner that the panel had to be replaced, as required by code.

I can see his position from a liability standpoint for his company, just not clear if his approach is sound and based on fact.

He insisted that this was required by 110.12(c) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections.

"There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent, cut, or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating"

In researching this in the forums, it seems like most people are just removing the burned breaker and using other spaces in the panel, and in some cases are just installing a new breaker right back in the same burned location. (which is shocking to see that a licensed electrician would do such a thing)

I would just like to get clarification on this issue from other electricians that have been in the trade longer than I have.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[mbrooke]

My belief is he has the correct attitude of changing the service panel. Even if the burnt spot is filed away, it becomes a thinner weaker spot in the panel buss.

If the panel is newer and I can get parts I just change the Guts in it:angel:

 

[Sierrasparky]

I think your boss was using a sound approach. I always do the same. It is unfortunate that the customer will not allways agree with you and want a different repair can sometimes get one and.

 

[Little Bill]

I think your boss was using a sound approach. I always do the same. It is unfortunate that the customer will not allways agree with you and want a different repair can sometimes get one and.

and.......................what?

 

[Hv&Lv]

I had a former employer (EC) that required that we sell a service change anytime we came across a service panel that had burning and pitting on the bus bar, at the breaker connection point. We were prohibited from doing any work on the panel once we discovered burning or pitting on the bus bar. We removed the damaged breaker and advised the homeowner that the panel had to be replaced, as required by code.

I can see his position from a liability standpoint for his company, just not clear if his approach is sound and based on fact.

He insisted that this was required by 110.12(c) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections.

"There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent, cut, or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating"

In researching this in the forums, it seems like most people are just removing the burned breaker and using other spaces in the panel, and in some cases are just installing a new breaker right back in the same burned location. (which is shocking to see that a licensed electrician would do such a thing)

I would just like to get clarification on this issue from other electricians that have been in the trade longer than I have.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

I believe this is sound advice also. If you remove the breaker and use other spaces in the panel, what is to stop this bad location from being used in the future by a handyman or the homeowner? I have seen these after they were filed down and breakers installed back. Like mbrooke stated, they wont last long with a load on them. I don't think the instructions included in the listing or labeling of this equipment allows for filing either (110.3(B)) Sometimes we have to try to protect the customer from themselves.

 

[titan1021]

I believe this is sound advice also. If you remove the breaker and use other spaces in the panel, what is to stop this bad location from being used in the future by a handyman or the homeowner? I have seen these after they were filed down and breakers installed back. Like mbrooke stated, they wont last long with a load on them. I don't think the instructions included in the listing or labeling of this equipment allows for filing either (110.3(B)) Sometimes we have to try to protect the customer from themselves.

I agree, I can't imagine that filing the bus would be permitted. I'm sure the bus and breakers are engineered to create certain amounts of tension at the contact point between the two. Filing that point down would decrease the contact surface area, especially if pitting has occurred. I would never even think of filing a bus bar. I've cleaned unused bus to breaker connections with fine steel wool, to remove the light oxidation that occurs just from sitting through the years.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Often there is damage to the fingers of the bus where there was some type of problem with the bus to breaker connection. If the damage is only to the fingers of the bus and is limited to the connection point of a single breaker, I see no issue with makring that position as "unusable" and installing a new breaker in another position, assuming there are spare postions available in the panel. No attempt should be made to repair the bus and if there are no spares the bus has to be replaced. That may or may not require the replacement of the panel.

 

[ptonsparky]

If space is available and usable, we move the circuit to new stabs with new breaker. Blank off the old and mark "Do Not Use". Check the other CBs while your at it.

 

[kwired]

I've cleaned unused bus to breaker connections with fine steel wool, to remove the light oxidation that occurs just from sitting through the years.

You are not even supposed to do that from what I have always been told.

Here if painters get paint on the bus it can not be cleaned off - no matter how you attempt to do it. Inspectors want that bus replaced. Doesn't matter if it was painters fault or electricians - that is not inspectors problem he just wants it replaced.

 

[jim dungar]

While some busbars can be cleaned, using steel wool would not be an approved method.

During the cleaning process you would have to be careful not to damage any busbar plating.

I cannot believe it would be possible, following manufacturer approved procedures, to clean or repair damaged bussing in a residential panelboard (aka loadcenter).

 

[kwired]

Don't worry about turning power off when using steel wool, but do wear proper PPE

 

[Gsjnkl]

While some busbars can be cleaned, using steel wool would not be an approved method.

During the cleaning process you would have to be careful not to damage any busbar plating.

I cannot believe it would be possible, following manufacturer approved procedures, to clean or repair damaged bussing in a residential panelboard (aka loadcenter).

I agree. The plating needs to be in tact. Unless you are in the business of plating items, it can never be properly reapaired without replacement.

In addition, you can not use steel wool to sand down an aluminum bus bar. Little pieces of steel will inpregnate the aluminum which will start the process of galvanic corrosion.
Then the clock is ticking until a major issue happens to that busbar. If any sanding was to be done, which im sure is not allowed, it must be sanded with a material of the same construction. ( i.e. an aluminum based grit on an aluminum bus bar, copper wire from a copper bristled brush etc.)