My Water Main is Hot

[ActionDave]

Ok, for right now I'm stalled, Reason #1 it's raining....

That's not a reason, that is an excuse. Cowboy up.

 

[hurk27]

Ok, for right now I'm stalled, Reason #1 it's raining

Other reasons are, I got to get some more scrap copper tubing for ground electrodes, The tubing works the best because I drill a few pin holes in the sides and fill them with salt water. Salt water makes a huge difference.

I got to get some cheap, or maybe scrap wire. I am not using up any more of the MTW from my truck. I'll end up on a midnight emergency and be 2 feet short of what I need the way my luck goes.

I want to take a trip to my buddy's scrap yard. I want to find some transformers for boost buck, and Isolation. I also want to find some small 3 phase motors, capacitors, and whatever else looks interesting.

BTW, Dennis

With a 4 foot length of 3/4" copper tubing sunk to a depth of about 3 1/2 feet, filled with a strong salt water solution, and one 120V hot wire,,,,

AND hooked to a boost-buck hooked to boost @ 32V. My 3/8" Millwalkie drill runs as close to full power as I can tell. That is when the rain started and I gave up

Remember the connection to earth for voltage measurements is only required to be the impedance of the meter you are using, a DVM can make these measurements with as little as just the end of the probe sticking in the earth, using copper in most cases is a waste since the connection to earth will never be a low enough impedance connection that would make any difference if is was a steel rod or even a piece of EMT, if you looked at the link I posted above to Gary's experiment in post #14, I think all he used was EMT.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Well with nothing electrical at all connected to the water service in my house, and just a piece of 14 gauge wire coming from my ground rod array in the back yard (about 100' away). I have 2/10 of an amp flow give or take. Is that high, or normal? I understand the parellel neutral thing. It just seems higher than I thought.


This is the extent of the circuit. I have eliminated everything else.

The power supply company should be blamed for this:the primary neutral of the distribution transformer is connected to the secondary neutral.This causes stray current to appear as such.

 

[iwire]

The power supply company should be blamed for this:the primary neutral of the distribution transformer is connected to the secondary neutral.This causes stray current to appear as such.

Question, as both the primary neutral and the secondary neutrals will be connected to earth how would you prevent this connection?

 

[Joethemechanic]

Remember the connection to earth for voltage measurements is only required to be the impedance of the meter you are using, a DVM can make these measurements with as little as just the end of the probe sticking in the earth, using copper in most cases is a waste since the connection to earth will never be a low enough impedance connection that would make any difference if is was a steel rod or even a piece of EMT, if you looked at the link I posted above to Gary's experiment in post #14, I think all he used was EMT.

Thanks, I looked at Gary's experiment, I didn't notice what he was using other than it looked like pipe. If I happened to have some emt I would have used it. I really don't have that much around other than some big stuff down at my yard maybe.

One difference from what Gary did is that I am loading the ground rod. I am using the earth as a conductor to run small loads so I kind of want to be well connected to the dirt. One thing I have noticed is once I get beyond say maybe an 8 foot shell is that distance does not matter much.

Another is that after a couple of feet of depth is that depth does not matter, but the salt makes a huge difference in lowering the impedance.

I had a generator out there running and sent 240V out on one wire with earth return. It improved the results about as much as expected just as doing the math predicted.

Next I want to try some experiments with sending 3 phase out there 2 wire with the earth as the 3rd conductor, I also want to put some caps out at the motor and see if they will improve the balance while running the 3 phase motor. I'll have to see what I can dig up for free

 

[Joethemechanic]

That's not a reason, that is an excuse. Cowboy up.

Well between the light rain, and the darn cats. The cats started coming over to see what I was doing, and they wandered into the voltage gradient danger area, so I kept having to stop. I tried to chase them, but they thought I was playing,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Then I remembered the left over pizza in the fridge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Things went downhill after that:happyno:

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Question, as both the primary neutral and the secondary neutrals will be connected to earth how would you prevent this connection?

No way.I think if instead of star-star transformer,delta-star transformer were used through out the country,the stray current problem would not matter much.

 

[ActionDave]

...Then I remembered the left over pizza in the fridge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Things went downhill after that:happyno:

Well now that's different. There is never a bad time for a good slice of pizza.

 

[Joethemechanic]

The cats had some sliced turkey breast that I thought kinda sorta might be a little old, Ok well maybe not that old, but they're a little spoiled I guess :lol:

I guess it's no wonder I can't chase them

 

[ActionDave]

No way.I think if instead of star-star transformer,delta-star transformer were used through out the country,the stray current problem would not matter much.

It sure would, but you need to add some new wires and equipment as well. Come on over. Be sure to bring some wire and tools we'll get to work.

 

[Joethemechanic]

It sure would, but you need to add some new wires and equipment as well. Come on over. Be sure to bring some wire and tools we'll get to work.

I think maybe he needs to take care of a few problems closer to home first.

In this June 13 file photo, an electrical linesman repairs cables in the middle of a spider web of illegal subsidiary wires around the main cables in Allahabad, India. Stealing of power is a frequent phenomenon in Indian towns. AP Photo by Rajesh Kumar Singh, File​

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

I think maybe he needs to take care of a few problems closer to home first.

There is no such a forum of 'brilliant 'minds here........

 

[Joethemechanic]

There is no such a forum of 'brilliant 'minds here........

I can't imagine how many disruptions and power quality issues all those illegal hook ups must cause on the distribution system.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

It sure would,

Here in India,the electricity distribution is through delta-star transformers and there does not appear to be any reported electrocution in swimming pool due to stray current from power system.I think there may be many such cases in the U.S..........

 

[ActionDave]

Here in India,the electricity distribution is through delta-star transformers and there does not appear to be any reported electrocution in swimming pool due to stray current from power system.I think there may be many such cases in the U.S..........

Who built their electrical distribution system first?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Here in India,the electricity distribution is through delta-star transformers and there does not appear to be any reported electrocution in swimming pool due to stray current from power system.I think there may be many such cases in the U.S..........

Sorry I don't see the connection
I don't see how a delta /.star system eliminates shock potential

 

[Joethemechanic]

Who built their electrical distribution system first?

I think the trick is they fill their pools with neem oil instead of water



Seriously though, I love neem

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Sorry I don't see the connection
I don't see how a delta /.star system eliminates shock potential

Please see the subhead 'III. Characteristics of Stray Voltage' in the link below.

[url]http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters.php?action=display&letterID=987

[/URL]The author of the paper stated therein states in effect that if the primary neutral is separated from the secondary neutral (figure#16),''the utility would not see the majority of stray voltage complaints.''

Delta-star transformer may be used for this purpose.The same may also be achieved by using neutral blocker in the star-star transformer.

 

[iwire]

It sure would, but you need to add some new wires and equipment as well. Come on over. Be sure to bring some wire and tools we'll get to work.

:lol::lol:

Awesome.:thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

No way.I think if instead of star-star transformer,delta-star transformer were used through out the country,the stray current problem would not matter much.

Not using the neeutral for loads would solve most of the stray voltage problems, (Connecting all loads line to line instead of line to neutral like most of them are) use the grounded neutral only for fault clearing. Or run a separate neutral conductor that is only grounded at the source like we do with low voltage systems.