ser

[mklectric]

Installed sub-panel to garage. 1.5 pvc with #2 ser inside. legal? done it past 15 years! PAST INSPECTION. Failed on this job per ART # 238?

please advise

 

[infinity]

Why do you think that it is or isn't code compliant?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Look at 338.12(A)(2)

 

[K8MHZ]

Look at 338.12(A)(2)

There isn't one in the 2005 NEC. First I see of it is in 2008 which would explain why the OP used to be able to do it and now he can't.

 

[raider1]

There isn't one in the 2005 NEC. First I see of it is in 2008 which would explain why the OP used to be able to do it and now he can't.

This has been prohibited by the listing and mentioned in the UL White book for a long time before 338.12(A)(2) was put into the code.

The reason that this was put into the code is that a lot of people were unaware of the listing prohibition for installing SER cable underground in a conduit.

Chris

 

[iwire]

The reason that this was put into the code is that a lot of people were unaware of the listing prohibition for installing SER cable underground in a conduit.

Probably because it makes no sense, SE is OK for exposed and concealed wet locations but not in a conduit underground.:roll::?:huh:

 

[PEDRO ESCOVILLA]

why didn't you use USE cable, save the conduit cost and inspection failure?

 

[raider1]

Probably because it makes no sense, SE is OK for exposed and concealed wet locations but not in a conduit underground.:roll::?:huh:

My guess is that UL never investigated and tested SER cable for used in an underground conduit and that is where the prohibition comes from.

Chris

 

[mikeames]

My guess is that UL never investigated and tested SER cable for used in an underground conduit and that is where the prohibition comes from.

Chris

Oh so kind of like the AFCI testing where AFCIs were never tested for cu to cu serie arcs. I can understand SE not underground since any tear in the outer jacket would possibly expose the bare AL braid and possibly lead to a higher probability of failure.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The southwire rep, as I recall stated that ser is fine in the weather but in a conduit underground it is exposed to the minerals etc in the soil. This can cause havoc with the bare aluminum neutral or ground. Now why can't copper SE cable be install underground in a conduit-- IDK.

 

[Cow]

I really don't care for pulling multiconductor cable into conduit, individual wires is the way to go IMO. They sell USE and XHHW in the regular sizes, so it's a pretty easy substitute for the SER you've been using.

 

[iwire]

I really don't care for pulling multiconductor cable into conduit, individual wires is the way to go IMO. They sell USE and XHHW in the regular sizes, so it's a pretty easy substitute for the SER you've been using.

Having done a fair amount of it for temp feeders I can tell you SER goes into PVC very nicely, don't try to put it in an LB, but sweeps, offsets etc. it glides right through.

 

[iwire]

The southwire rep, as I recall stated that ser is fine in the weather but in a conduit underground it is exposed to the minerals etc in the soil. This can cause havoc with the bare aluminum neutral or ground.

Is there an NEC prohibition against pulling a bare AL into an underground conduit?

I know there is a rule about AL GECs but can't recall one for AL EGCs. :?

 

[raider1]

Is there an NEC prohibition against pulling a bare AL into an underground conduit?

I know there is a rule about AL GECs but can't recall one for AL EGCs. :?

250.120(B) is as close as you will come and does not specifically prohibit a bare aluminum EGC from being installed in an underground raceway.

Chris

 

[iwire]

250.120(B) is as close as you will come and does not specifically prohibit a bare aluminum EGC from being installed in an underground raceway.

Chris

Thanks, I looked in 250.118 and 300.5 to see if there was something.

Can't say I would ever have a desire too do so. That being the case I guess it does make some sense that AL SE can't be run underground in a conduit.

 

[gndrod]

Installed sub-panel to garage. 1.5 pvc with #2 ser inside. legal? done it past 15 years! PAST INSPECTION. Failed on this job per ART # 238?

please advise

Permitted use of SE was misleading when Style SE-R and SE-U cables did not comply with 'flame retardant and moisture-resistant covering" in Art 338 even before the 2008 NEC spelled it out.
A possible correction to this can be done without pulling out the cable if a separate insulated moisture-resistant rated EGC can be fished along side the Style type cable. Pealing back the SE- sheath and bare al conductor at both ends and out of an inspection view seems to pass in a pinch.

 

[gndrod]

Bare Al as EGC

Bare Al as EGC

250.120(B) is as close as you will come and does not specifically prohibit a bare aluminum EGC from being installed in an underground raceway.

Chris

I believe that [338.100] gives a better clue to recognized underground use of Type USE constructions not mentioning SE cabling per se. The 2008 FPN to 230.41(4) exception was somewhat conflicting.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

We all know that aluminum service laterals break down underground when they get a nic in the insulation. So why would anyone want se aluminum in a conduit underground. It has a good change of doing damage to the bare conductor. I would bet it would take a lot longer to affect the wire when it is in conduit and I wonder if anyone has ever studied the effect of bare aluminum in conduit underground.

Art.338.100 & 250.120(B) are good examples but it does they refer to direct burial. I assume the corrosive condition of the water that may enter the conduit could be an issue for bare aluminum.

 

[iwire]

why would anyone want se aluminum in a conduit underground. .

I can't speak for anyone but I like to do it for things like this.