Which way did he go?

[tonype]

1930's 1-famly home was converted to 2 family (1950's?). A 2nd service was provided - main in the basement and a sub-panel in the 2nd floor apt. My question is on the appropriateness of routing conductors (in metal conduit) from the 2nd floor panel back to the main disconnect in the basement. Neutrals are connected to the terminal bar (left side - two that are double-lugged to a connection) and hot conductors are spliced into the original circuits in the home.

It appears that the main is being used improperly as a raceway for the splices. Other concern is how the neutrals are being connected. Any insight would be appreciated.

The right photo below is the 2nd floor sub panel - conductors routed back to the main disconnect box exit at the back of the panel - lower left. The left photo is the main panel - conductors from the 2nd floor enter at the upper right conduit connection.

 

[augie47]

There are a multitude of problems at both panels, however, I see no problem with the "design". Using the main as a splice box presents no problems.
Multiple neutrals under 1 screw, lack of bushings, and failure to seperate neutrals and grounds in the subpanel are a few of the problems that jump out to me.

 

[K8MHZ]

There are a multitude of problems at both panels, however, I see no problem with the "design". Using the main as a splice box presents no problems.
Multiple neutrals under 1 screw, lack of bushings, and failure to seperate neutrals and grounds in the subpanel are a few of the problems that jump out to me.

The OP said 'a second service was provided'.

So, is that a subpanel, or a service panel?

 

[K8MHZ]

In the right photo, I see three hots and only one neutral coming into the top. If a red and black are used for straight 240, where is the handle tie?

 

[resistance]

The OP said 'a second service was provided'.

So, is that a subpanel, or a service panel?

I believe the OP is saying a sub panel was the new addition from the main service rated panel.


The OP said

A 2nd service was provided - main in the basement and a sub-panel in the 2nd floor apt.

 

[resistance]

I agree with the others, but I believe this should already be evident to the OP.
@tonype,
Not truly understanding your question. If it?s in regards to the how the conductors are routed, and terminated. Then you will need to trace, and correct based on your onsite inspection of the electrical equipment.

Or do you need clarification as to when a neutral should float?

 

[resistance]

The OP said 'a second service was provided'.

So, is that a subpanel, or a service panel?

To add, I believe this is a case where there is one meter?where the utility bill is being split, or the property owner has included the utilities with the rental. Technically, this could be a building code violation?depending on AHJ.

 

[K8MHZ]

To add, I believe this is a case where there is one meter?where the utility bill is being split, or the property owner has included the utilities with the rental. Technically, this could be a building code violation?depending on AHJ.

Technically, if there is only one meter, wouldn't that mean only one service?

I don't know if it's a state law or not, but here landlords can't charge separately for electricity, metered or not. They can meter it and adjust the rent when the rental agreement is expired and a new one made up, but they can't change the rent on a monthly basis due to electricity costs.

 

[tonype]

The OP said 'a second service was provided'.

So, is that a subpanel, or a service panel?

The panel on the left is the main disconnect in the basement (2nd floor apartment only - there is a separate panel for the 1st floor); the one on the right is the sub-panel at the dwelling).

 

[resistance]

Technically, if there is only one meter, wouldn't that mean only one service?

I don't know if it's a state law or not, but here landlords can't charge separately for electricity, metered or not. They can meter it and adjust the rent when the rental agreement is expired and a new one made up, but they can't change the rent on a monthly basis due to electricity costs.

Yes, I agree, it is one service. But I believe the OP meant to say (instead of saying there is two services) their is now a new sub panel added from the main service rated panel. As far as what is or isn’t law in a specific juridiction is beyond me. I do know that some landlords are taking a single family dwelling, and turn it into a two family dwell—this could be a building code violation. I had a customer trying to do this legally, but the building department denied him, because the structure was not zoned for his request.
Then again, i learned my lesson by assuming what the OP is saying in a previous thread. So……Like iwire once said, “I will hold my comments until the OP clarifies.” Maybe I haven’t learned my lesson, it seems I already made another assumption

 

[resistance]

The panel on the left is the main disconnect in the basement (2nd floor apartment only - there is a separate panel for the 1st floor); the one on the right is the sub-panel at the dwelling).

Lost me??????????????? OK, are there two meters or not? If so, then how are the service entrance conductors ran?

 

[tonype]

Lost me??????????????? OK, are there two meters or not? If so, then how are the service entrance conductors ran?

Two meters - 1st floor with separate meter. 2nd floor meter services the main disconnect panel in the left photo of the original post. The right photo is the sub-panel from this main.