Chemical grounds

[lilsparky]

Hi All,
On my upgrade facility, the site is "bonded" everywhere even to the downspout air terminal of the lightning protection system. All of which goes to a "chemical" ground outside. Of course there is no written documentation of this ground being installed. Is there a way to check to see if the mixture is still inside the tube. Also how to calculate to add more, I'm trying to convince the customer their "bonding" isn't grounding and that more is needed.

 

[mike7330]

I would think a ground megger test would tell you if the system is still working. Or you would need to take a small core sample to see what going on with the grounding material.

http://www.erico.com/products/GEM.asp
http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/LT0925.pdf

 

[gndrod]

Hi All,
On my upgrade facility, the site is "bonded" everywhere even to the downspout air terminal of the lightning protection system. All of which goes to a "chemical" ground outside. Of course there is no written documentation of this ground being installed. Is there a way to check to see if the mixture is still inside the tube. Also how to calculate to add more, I'm trying to convince the customer their "bonding" isn't grounding and that more is needed.

Is this of a semi-conductor manufacturing or volatile fumes type facility? Seems that a static grounding would be even more of a concern than a soil grounding configuration. Even bonding plastics would be a concern.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The chemical rods I have seen have a removable cap so you can add salt. It is a visual inspection.

 

[iwire]

Hi All,
On my upgrade facility, the site is "bonded" everywhere even to the downspout air terminal of the lightning protection system. All of which goes to a "chemical" ground outside. Of course there is no written documentation of this ground being installed. Is there a way to check to see if the mixture is still inside the tube. Also how to calculate to add more, I'm trying to convince the customer their "bonding" isn't grounding and that more is needed.

Any reason to believe what is there is not sufficient or that spending the customers money to improve it would result in any benefit at all to the customer?

 

[lilsparky]

I guess I should give more info. The area doesn't have good soil, very rocky, dry and salty environment. The cap on the chemical ground has not been opened since the first installation. There hasn't been any ground test on the material outside the building but they are required to do ground test inside the building because of ordance hazards. However like I stated before there aren't separate grounds in this facility, EVERYTHING is bonded together.

I hope I answered everybody's questions.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What do you mean by there aren't separate grounds in the building?

 

[lilsparky]

Ha! yes, that's what I'm saying. The power, lets call it facility ground, bonded to lightning protection. The comm/instrumentation bonded to lightning protection. The static ground bonded to lightning protection. lightning protection is grounded to one chemical ground. The other down leads go to regular ground rods at the corner of the buildings. By the way, all of the above not documented. Learned of this during my walkdown of the site.

Serious trouble. Yes!! have they been lucky yes!

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Hi All,
Is there a way to check to see if the mixture is still inside the tube. Also how to calculate to add more,

The chemicals you added during the chemical grounding,unless periodically topped up, are gradually leeched away from the surrounding earth due to frequent downpours and movement of ground water so that the ground resistance rises after a number of years.This can easily be checked up with an earth meggar.Periodic topping up of chemicals may be done in consultation with the manufacturer of the chemical ground.

 

[HoosierSparky]

Counterpoise Grounding

Counterpoise Grounding

Hi All,
On my upgrade facility, the site is "bonded" everywhere even to the downspout air terminal of the lightning protection system. All of which goes to a "chemical" ground outside. Of course there is no written documentation of this ground being installed. Is there a way to check to see if the mixture is still inside the tube. Also how to calculate to add more, I'm trying to convince the customer their "bonding" isn't grounding and that more is needed.

I am having a similar problem. I have a horse area expansion I am reviewing. I am seeing some things on the plans that are familiar, but nothing I have seen or labeled like this before. The engineer has spec'd out a chemical ground rod, but no manufacturer or detail provided. In the spec book the following statement is there for what I see as a ground ring:

"COUNTERPOISE​

Ground the steel framework of the building with a buried electrode at the base of every cornercolumn and at intermediate exterior columns at distances not more than 60 feet apart. Providea grounding conductor (counterpoise), electrically connected to each ground rod and to eachsteel column, extending around the perimeter of the building. Use tinned-copper conductor notless than No. 2/0 AWG for counterpoise and for tap to building steel. Bury counterpoise not lessthan 18 inches below grade, or 6 inches below the official frost line, whichever is greater, and 24​

inches from building foundation."


The lack of details and information provided is terrible! :? Anyone have any input?

 

[Speedskater]

I think of a "counterpoise" as part of a radio antenna.
"counterpoise"
A system of wires or other conductors, elevated above and insulated from ground, forming a lower system of conductors of an antenna.

 

[K8MHZ]

I think of a "counterpoise" as part of a radio antenna.
"counterpoise"
A system of wires or other conductors, elevated above and insulated from ground, forming a lower system of conductors of an antenna.

It can mean that, but not in this case. For one thing, wire used as a counterpoise for antennas must not be more than a couple inches below the surface or they won't work. They work the best above the ground. And, despite what Wiki says, antenna counterpoises do not have to be isolated from the ground to work. Most, in fact, are electrically bonded to the ground or a substitute for the ground (vehicle body).

See this thread about your basic electrical counterpoise

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=80109