tripping arc fault breaker...

[gotmud]

So I went to a customers house today and he had a good one for me.....When he turns on one of the elements on his electric stove it trips a couple arc fault breakers in his panel....The two breakers are in the panel in random spots. They are not next to the range breaker....Anyone????:?

 

[CONDUIT]

Not really sure. First thing I would check is to verify that the neutral is not open anywhere branch circuit, feeder, or service.

 

[Pizza]

So I went to a customers house today and he had a good one for me.....When he turns on one of the elements on his electric stove it trips a couple arc fault breakers in his panel....The two breakers are in the panel in random spots. They are not next to the range breaker....Anyone????:?

Did it happen while you were there? Or is that how the home owner described it? It could be a coincidence that when the stove is on that the arc fault breakers tripped. Or does it happen immediately when you turn the knob?

 

[hillbilly1]

Not really sure. First thing I would check is to verify that the neutral is not open anywhere branch circuit, feeder, or service.

That's got my vote.

 

[templdl]

With duples outlets have tyou ever noticed that the neutral grounded condure screw where the neutral is treminated is on the same side and the green EGC scew terminal? Have you ever noticed that if one weren't paying attention when the duplex was pushed back and secured in the box that the darned bare EGC may fold out along side of the duplex and come into contact with the neutral? As such that AFCI will consider that the neutral current that would also be returming on the EGC as a ground fault and trip.
Sometimes if one were to turn of the AFCI and remove the line and neutral conductors as well as remoing the EGC you can then measure is there is any continuity between the EGC and the neutral which there shouldn't be. It should show as an open circuit. If it doesn't then there is very posible that the EGC and the nuetral are touching somewhere and that's when the fun begins.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If everything is wired properly I would try these ferrite filters if all else fails. The only thing is I don't see how an element would cause this issue. These worked well with a problem we had with a TV but I am not sure how they will help with a resistive element.

 

[CONDUIT]

Just wondering if that filter would keep it from actually working in a situation where it is suppose to?

 

[ELA]

Dennis,
I am curious where the insert, and concept of using a ferrite that you posted came from? Was the problem you mentioned with a TV related to an AFCI nuisance trip?

When an AFCI is being upset by some electronic device, and higher frequency interference is suspected, It has been recommended that an EMI filter be applied to the offending device.
By EMI filter I refer to a "choke coil" plus capacitor type filter. A good quality filter of this type can attenuate frequencies in the range that an AFCI is most susceptible to.

A ferrite is usually only effective at much higher frequencies. While they can be very effective at reducing interference in the megahertz range I would be surprised if they helped a nuisance trip of an AFCI?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis,
I am curious where the insert, and concept of using a ferrite that you posted came from? Was the problem you mentioned with a TV related to an AFCI nuisance trip?

When an AFCI is being upset by some electronic device, and higher frequency interference is suspected, It has been recommended that an EMI filter be applied to the offending device.
By EMI filter I refer to a "choke coil" plus capacitor type filter. A good quality filter of this type can attenuate frequencies in the range that an AFCI is most susceptible to.

A ferrite is usually only effective at much higher frequencies. While they can be very effective at reducing interference in the megahertz range I would be surprised if they helped a nuisance trip of an AFCI?

I had an issue with AFCI tripping when the TV was on for 5 minutes or so. The GE tech guy sent me 2 breakers replacements as well as the ferrite filters and I will tell you it worked. You cannot use them on 15 amp circuits where dimmers are used but this was on receptacle circuits. The TV is working fine on the AFCI circuit-- we did not change the breaker.

 

[LEO2854]

With duples outlets have tyou ever noticed that the neutral grounded condure screw where the neutral is treminated is on the same side and the green EGC scew terminal? Have you ever noticed that if one weren't paying attention when the duplex was pushed back and secured in the box that the darned bare EGC may fold out along side of the duplex and come into contact with the neutral? As such that AFCI will consider that the neutral current that would also be returming on the EGC as a ground fault and trip.
Sometimes if one were to turn of the AFCI and remove the line and neutral conductors as well as remoing the EGC you can then measure is there is any continuity between the EGC and the neutral which there shouldn't be. It should show as an open circuit. If it doesn't then there is very posible that the EGC and the nuetral are touching somewhere and that's when the fun begins.

that's when the fun begins

Yes and lots of it..:lol:

 

[emf10]

So I went to a customers house today and he had a good one for me.....When he turns on one of the elements on his electric stove it trips a couple arc fault breakers in his panel....The two breakers are in the panel in random spots. They are not next to the range breaker....Anyone????:?

What do the two AFCI circuits feed? Were they ran alongside the range feed (maybe induction is triggering it)?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What do the two AFCI circuits feed? Were they ran alongside the range feed (maybe induction is triggering it)?

That is definitely a possibility but I was surprised that was an issue with resistant heat.

 

[ngd4130]

So I went to a customers house today and he had a good one for me.....When he turns on one of the elements on his electric stove it trips a couple arc fault breakers in his panel....The two breakers are in the panel in random spots. They are not next to the range breaker....Anyone????:?

This is a similiar situation I had. This was after my new house was built. The electrician who wired it left the problem by leaving the security light not working. So I had the take the "bull by the horn" and figure it out.
The problem I found was that a neutral from one panel was tied to a neutral from another panel. I had the arc-fault in one panel tripping so I temporarily put the circuit on a non-arc fault breaker. The result was an arc-fault tripping in the other panel. This turned on the "light bulb" (in my head). I then searched and found (2) neutral from two different panels connected in the junction box. Once I seperated the neutrals, the problem was solved.
So the lesson learned is the arc-fault breaker can now help solve the issues of incorrect wiring methods and contractors need be aware of this when wiring new installations involving arc-fault breakers.
:angel:

 

[ELA]

I had an issue with AFCI tripping when the TV was on for 5 minutes or so. The GE tech guy sent me 2 breakers replacements as well as the ferrite filters and I will tell you it worked. You cannot use them on 15 amp circuits where dimmers are used but this was on receptacle circuits. The TV is working fine on the AFCI circuit-- we did not change the breaker.

Thanks Dennis,
I am surprised indeed. The fact that a ferrite eliminated the nuisance trip problem indicates that the GE breaker is severely under designed.