Fire Pump Conductors

Status
Not open for further replies.
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
We are replacing the controller and fire pump for a customer. Because of the size of the new controller, we have to relocate it about 10' away from the previous location. The AHJ wants us to use 2-hour rated conductors into the new controller. All well and good (although not necessary; once you are in the fire pump room you don't need the 2-hour rated conductors). We are on 2008 in NJ. The building was constructed, as far as I know, around 1985. I don't know which edition NJ was on then, but say the 1984 or '87. Article 695 didn't appear until 1996. Where would I find the information on the rating required for the conductors (if any) back then? I ask because the conductors from the disconnect on the 10th floor to the fire pump on the 17th floor are THW and wouldn't meet today's 2-hour or the previous 1-hour rating requirement. I want to know if I'm going to be the bearer of bad tidings to the customer.
 
Anyone? Anyone?

Anyone? Anyone?

I've dropped this into the thread to bump it up to the top. I note that 81 folks have viewed the thread. Like the Marines, I need "a few good men" (or women) to help me out. Any takers?
 
I went through a very similar situation with a fire pump controller change out. In my case it was even older. We had a cooperative AHJ in our case to hash out an acceptable solution, but it pretty much brought the installation up to current requirements. Also, the owners insurance carrier had a seat at the table, who also steered the owner to bring it up to current codes. In the end it was quite expensive, even the owner was convinced, but it was the right thing to do.
 
I don't find any fire pump motor conductor sizing rules in the 1984 code. How ever there is FPN that directs you to NFPA 20, Installation of Centrifugal Fire Pumps. The edition referenced is 1983. As I recall most of the electrical rules for fire pump installations were in NFPA 20 until Article 695 was put into NPFA 70.
 
Nearly Done

Nearly Done

Well, additional information has come to light. First, the building was constructed during 1972-1975. This puts it before NJ adopted the Uniform Construction Code (1975). The local jusidiction might then have used either or both NFPA 70-1968/71 and/or NFPA 20-1969/72. I found a copy of NFPA 70-1968 on line and found no direct mention of the requirements for fire pump feeders, nor is there any mention in the ROP for the '71 edition. As others have pointed out, the NEC at this time deferred to NFPA 20. The requirement for 1 hour protection of feeders first appears in the ROP for the 1980 edition of NFPA 20.

Thus, at the time of construction, the feeders did NOT represent any apparent code violation. Our relocation of the controller is not likely to trigger a re-installation of the feeders (gotta love the NJ rehab code!). Other considerations may prevail, but it looks like it's just going to be 10-20 feet of 2-hour cable and call it a day.
 
mike7330 said:
you need to look in the nj ucc book, I think there is no exception for live safety in high rise???
Click to expand...

If work is taking place in a high rise, the rehab code is concerned with stand pipes and fire alarm systems. It doesn't, as far as I've found, discuss fire pump feeders. In any event, we are not rehabbing the building, we are making a repair. We don't come close to the percentages that would trigger an upgrade to current code even if this were considered an alteration.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top