old resi panel "do not remove this twistout"

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malachi constant

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Minneapolis
Anyone know why an old Square D panel (QO-18-410, series 2, 120/240) would have a couple knockouts at the bottom labeled "if lugs at top do not remove this twistout"? They are the last two spaces remaining in the panel and I would love to utilize them. The incoming lugs and main breaker are at the top. Looking under the cover there doesn't seem to be anything physically prohibiting installing breakers here - looks like a breaker would snap in and be live. I have no idea why they would be off-limits. I've never noticed it in a panel of any age before and wonder if anyone knows what is going on? I cannot imagine what could be wrong with removing those knockouts.

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That is an extremely old panel, maybe 50+years. You have breakers in there that do not have the Visi-Trip window. That window was added back in the very early 60's.
 
Does it have anything to do with how many circuits the panel is rated for? Maybe 2 spaces are intended for a main? Does the panel label tell you anything?

Looks to me like this is a sub panel and the neutrals and grounds are on the same bus.
 
jim dungar said:
That panel was tested and listed as an 18 circuit panel. The fact that you can physically cram more stuff in there is irrelevant.
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Rats. I think you nailed it.

This is the main panel (only panel) for my house. 60A main on it. Trips about once every couple years when running power tools (simultaneously with other normal household loads) so I know it is not completely out of function. But yes, 1400 SF house, plus garage, all fed from a 60A main - I think this is the excuse I need to upgrade it. (Remodeling kitchen, these breaker spaces were to be for the two small appliance circuits.)

I shouldn't say rats, I should be happy. It's hard convincing the wife that good money needs to spent on maintaining things that are functioning but old. That stuff is out of sight out of mind to her, whereas I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is not a huge expense and is long overdue.

Now if anyone has a compelling reason I can give to replace my one-hundred-year-old sewer line all the way across our basement, under the front steps, under the front walk, under the citcy sidewalk, all the way out to the street, I'm all ears. Had a plumber look at that and estimate it as a $20K job, not sure if that price even includes the new stairs/walks and landscaping. Sigh. Probably should wait for something bad to happen to make that fix occur. [EDIT: probably should wait until I just happen to have $20K sitting around! Yeah right.]

That was off topic. New main panel. Got it. Thank you.
 
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malachi constant said:
Rats. I think you nailed it.

It's hard convincing the wife that good money needs to spent on maintaining things that are functioning but old. That stuff is out of sight out of mind to her, whereas I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is not a huge expense and is long overdue.

That was off topic. New main panel. Got it. Thank you.
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It is hard to convince people that money needs to be put into the electrical of the house. Especially when they can't see it.
Granite counter tops and new cabinets can be seen.
When we did ours, I just did it (easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission). Kitchen was pretty much gutted and rewiring was easy. Panel was also easily accesible. Got her a lot of receptacles and under counter lights so I didn't have to defend myself to much. :0)
 
That looks like a split bus panel to me, which means the 60 just feeds the sub section. But it escapes me about the do not use spaces. I think the "410" in the model indicates 4, 2 pole mains and 10 spaces in the sub section.
 
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malachi constant said:
Now if anyone has a compelling reason I can give to replace my one-hundred-year-old sewer line all the way across our basement, under the front steps, under the front walk, under the citcy sidewalk, all the way out to the street, I'm all ears. Had a plumber look at that and estimate it as a $20K job, not sure if that price even includes the new stairs/walks and landscaping. Sigh. Probably should wait for something bad to happen to make that fix occur. [EDIT: probably should wait until I just happen to have $20K sitting around! Yeah right.]

That was off topic.
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Sorry to keep off topic, but is your sewer line rather straight? Have you heard of pipe bursting / trenchless sewer replacement? Basically they feed a cable through the existing pipe which is connected to a cutting head and a new pipe on one end, and a hydraulic puller on the other end. The cutting head splits the old pipe to make room for the new one. Usually done with clay pipe, but I believe it can be done with any pipe with the appropriate cutter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVdKho8EaA
 
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