Massachusetts Homeowners

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hurk27

Senior Member
peter d
Originally Posted by hurk27
Lets keep it nice
everyone has a right to their own opinion
I just get a little fired up when I hear people talking about restricting what we can and can't do in our homes.

I know but we need to maintain and I agree with too much government is also bad for many things, but that is also an issue we are not allowed to discuss in the forum.

we can have opinions as long as we do not direct our anger at others when we don't agree with their point of view:thumbsup:

Edited:quoted the wrong post:slaphead:
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Then choose wisely when buying a house with a fire next door in mind, like some separation between houses, I know many 0 lot houses are getting very common in these days as builders try to squeeze as many lots into a partial of land that they can, and this could be a reason to not allow this kind of law to be used and I would have to agree with it, but it would be hard to change the law to be fair to everyone, maybe not, depends upon how it would be view in legislation?

As was said there are many reasons fires are caused and this is a very small one if we were to look a statistics? with as much fear of fires and shock hazards there is in many today I would feel that many who choose to do their own work would tend to be careful, its the ones who wouldn't do their own work but have no problem using a cheap extension cord on a portable space heater who scare me, or put a 100 watt lamp in a light fixture only rated for 40 or 60 watts, these are people who know they don't have enough smarts to do their own work but also do not know how much danger they are putting their family in just because they think that if you can buy extension cords and these heaters they should be safe to use and haven't a clue that what their doing is even dangerous.

So its not the DYS wiring that scare me as much as the clueless ones that don't have a lick of common sense and the more laws pad these peoples world they more clueless people we will have.
as many have said and Larry the Cable Guy so quickly points out:

Stupid Should hurt! << this builds common sense

I agree we do not need any more laws.

The issue here is one of the reps is sponsoring a new law that will require that HO's will be allowed to pull Electrical permits and do there own Electrical work without any training in the field or any knowledge of the NEC and will simply lead to the GC performing the work for them under the new homeowners Electrical permit ,and there will be no way for Electrical Inspectors to prove that the HO did not perform the work so this is just the start of side stepping the Electricians licensing laws that have been in place since 1915 in Massachusetts, And it kills the argument that people that are doing Electrical work should work in the field for 8,000 hours and go to school learn Electrical theory and the NEC and have to sit for the journeyman Electricians test pass it, and work and go to school for an additional year take the master Electricians exam so they can pull permits and do the same thing that an HO without any experience can do the same thing.

At this point there is no law that states that a homeowner cannot do his own Electrical work and there is no law that requires Electrical inspectors to give HO's permits and inspect their work.


It is illegal for HO's to do their own plumbing work in Massachusetts and that should be the same for Electrical work IMO.:)
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Well I think we need to look at this with an open mind, I agree that it sounds like this law is not needed if it is already allowed, but to say no one can do their own work is going a little over board, just like us who do our own work on our own cars, there are many who can not afford to always hire someone to do work for us and it is part of life that we are all trying to survive in the life even as hard as it has been lately, could you imagine if were had to hire a mechanic to do simple oil changes or even a tune up, I myself do all my own work on my vehicles as I cant afford to run to a garage eveytime something goes wrong with one of my vehicles, and we have many home owners who are in the same boat, but the one thing that they don't get is the work from an experienced trades person, as they say they get what they paid for, in this case they get what they can afford, I take the same responsibility when I do my own work, but I have that choice to make when the money is not there, should we as Americans be forced to always hire someone no matter what the job is, as you can see a little law here and a little law there and soon none of us will have any rights left, mow your lawn, no because it can hurt you, drive your car, no because you can get into an accident and hurt others.

I can remember back in the days when we had to learn how to do for ourselves, we had no choice if we needed something done we had to learn how to do it or it didn't get done, I myself do not want those rights taken away, that is the freedom we expect from the country that many have died fighting to keep those very freedoms, this isn't and shouldn't be about us maybe loosing a few jobs that a person might not have been able to afford to hire us anyways to do, it is about us loosing our freedoms one law at a time.

So when I see someone who is doing their own work I do not look at it as another job I could have had that was taken away because they wanted to do it themselves, but I look at it as someone trying to survive at what ever means they need to use.

as for contractors using this to do work without a license to make money? no it shouldn't be allowed, but at the same time would it be wrong for someone to help a person to do their own work if it is not for profit? at least we could help them do it safely, I have helped many homeowner who could not afford to hire me with no problems, habitat for humanity does just that and even does the work but it is very limited to who gets helped.

here in Indiana the law covers all trades, as you can see in the post where I posted it, it does not distinguish between plumbing, HVAC, or electric.

While I understand that there will always be some who use these loop holes to skirt the requirements of the law, we can not focus on these people as there will always be cons in this world, as there will always be those who break other laws, but we can not allow loosing our freedoms just because a few wish to not do it right, we will always have homeowners who don't want to try to do things on there own, and as long as we can do a good job over and above what these other people are getting then we will always be needed.

heres another angle, when a homeowner takes the liability upon themselves and something goes wrong then they will have to bear the responsibility of the out come, this is another thing they do not receive that they would if they paid us for our services, so no they are not getting a deal, they are getting what they pay for, but it might be all they can afford.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
That is the whole reason for the law there are some big company's flipping houses and just want to use there own traveling band.

The way your mind works is odd, you find a way to twist anything into some sort of conspiracy of big business or government. I also question how much leverage the 'flipper community' has with politicians. But regardless of that here are the relevant MA laws, as you can see flippers do not currently need permits or licenses.

Part of M.G.L 143:3L
No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six.
Full text here. http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter143/Section3L

If you are working in your own home you are not working for hire. No permit required.










Part of M.G.L. 141:1A
Section 1A. No person, firm or corporation shall enter into, engage in, or work at the business or occupation of installing wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances for carrying or using electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes, unless such person, firm or corporation shall be licensed by the state examiners of electricians
Full text here http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter143/Section3L

If you are adding a receptacle in your own home that does not mean you are in the business or occupation of wiring. Now I think when we get to landlords and multifamily units I believe the interpretation is that they are in a business.

Notice that nothing in that section requires an electrical license to work on your own property. That law has been in place like that for decades so 'flippers' have never been required to be licensed.
 
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tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
Improper gas piping can blow up a house. Improper venting of a fuel burning appliance can cause CO poisoning. Improper venting of a waste line can cause sewer gas backup.

Sure, we don't normally associate plumbing with fires and shock hazard, but it does have risks if not done properly.

What is his house burns down from a carelessly disposed ciggarette? OK, then lets ban smoking inside of homes. What about a candle? Then we need to ban those too. So where do you draw the line? :roll:

Your crazy, I know that ALL the fires on the news are electrical.
They know they are electrical while they are still burning. :lol:
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Well I think we need to look at this with an open mind, I agree that it sounds like this law is not needed if it is already allowed, but to say no one can do their own work is going a little over board, just like us who do our own work on our own cars, there are many who can not afford to always hire someone to do work for us and it is part of life that we are all trying to survive in the life even as hard as it has been lately, could you imagine if were had to hire a mechanic to do simple oil changes or even a tune up, I myself do all my own work on my vehicles as I cant afford to run to a garage eveytime something goes wrong with one of my vehicles, and we have many home owners who are in the same boat, but the one thing that they don't get is the work from an experienced trades person, as they say they get what they paid for, in this case they get what they can afford, I take the same responsibility when I do my own work, but I have that choice to make when the money is not there, should we as Americans be forced to always hire someone no matter what the job is, as you can see a little law here and a little law there and soon none of us will have any rights left, mow your lawn, no because it can hurt you, drive your car, no because you can get into an accident and hurt others.

I can remember back in the days when we had to learn how to do for ourselves, we had no choice if we needed something done we had to learn how to do it or it didn't get done, I myself do not want those rights taken away, that is the freedom we expect from the country that many have died fighting to keep those very freedoms, this isn't and shouldn't be about us maybe loosing a few jobs that a person might not have been able to afford to hire us anyways to do, it is about us loosing our freedoms one law at a time.

So when I see someone who is doing their own work I do not look at it as another job I could have had that was taken away because they wanted to do it themselves, but I look at it as someone trying to survive at what ever means they need to use.

as for contractors using this to do work without a license to make money? no it shouldn't be allowed, but at the same time would it be wrong for someone to help a person to do their own work if it is not for profit? at least we could help them do it safely, I have helped many homeowner who could not afford to hire me with no problems, habitat for humanity does just that and even does the work but it is very limited to who gets helped.

here in Indiana the law covers all trades, as you can see in the post where I posted it, it does not distinguish between plumbing, HVAC, or electric.

While I understand that there will always be some who use these loop holes to skirt the requirements of the law, we can not focus on these people as there will always be cons in this world, as there will always be those who break other laws, but we can not allow loosing our freedoms just because a few wish to not do it right, we will always have homeowners who don't want to try to do things on there own, and as long as we can do a good job over and above what these other people are getting then we will always be needed.

heres another angle, when a homeowner takes the liability upon themselves and something goes wrong then they will have to bear the responsibility of the out come, this is another thing they do not receive that they would if they paid us for our services, so no they are not getting a deal, they are getting what they pay for, but it might be all they can afford.

Good point i agree with that.:)
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Feel free to find any outside source of that opinion and post it here.:thumbsup:

As soon as i can find out who the rep or senator that sponsored this bill I'm sure i will get the answer out of him and let you Know...:thumbsup:.
 

jsilva1701d

New member
LOL, yeah it's been a while. ;)




Ahh, so it's just semantics.

Ironically in the great Commonwealth of Ma. you don't need a license to do your own electrical work, but you need a Licensed Plumber to do any work in your home. All in the name of "Public Health". There have been cases that the town or city will issue the permit and take the fee and never show for the inspection. Although I agree that you should be able to do what you want in your own home, what happens when the homeowner wires that swimming pool incorrectly and the neighbor's kid gets electrocuted?
 
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