Request advice on long wire pull (please)
- Thread starter Richardtheelectrician
- Start date
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I have had anything from 14 - maybe about #2 get away from on that type of run. How do you even hold on to 75 feet of 750's? If you hold too tight they will pull you through the pipe also.
Ha Ha Ha Ha......I was a helper... apprentice ........what ever you want to call it at the time....
The mechanic and I where set up with the puller mounted to the floor in the basement.
Pulling up to like the 3rd floor (just us two), (.......I think the wire and puller where in the basement so I'm not sure how he rigged it).
I was behind a filing cabinet (being the eyes), he was in the hall with the rope to the puller.
He started the pull............it was going fine then.... (imagine the tone of the tink.. getting higher pitched) tink...tink...tink...tink.....POW......
The puller went flying across the room.....and all the wire that was in the pipe ( I think we were almost there ) came sliding back down out of the pipe draping around and filling the room......
Way to go Johnny :thumbsup:
geoflo
Member
- Location
- ft. walton beach fla.
what ever method to pull wire thu conduit dont over look good soap i fine yellow 77 best we have had 3 pull one with clear pull lube hard pull next pull yellow 77 went easy
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
Thanks kwired............and again apologize Fultrotl.........................
nothin to apologize for......
i've done some over the hedge stuff, but haven't been a threat to
myself or others.... well, not very much.
i've done lots of feeders in machine shops, where i didn't have a
tugger, but had a forklift.....
i discovered with a greenlee ultra tugger, and the rolling puller arm
that goes with it, that a greenlee rope with a full set of turns on the
sheave would self feed without being touched, and so i took the
foot pedal and set it up as a control to operate an ice cube relay on
the other end, controlling the tugger, and put extension cords between
for the control voltage for the ice cube, so i can control the tugger from
the feed end.... (this was before maxxis tuggers, which i love and strongly
recommend)
anyway, i had five five 500 mcm to pull 300 feet in a data center, and a
crew of three guys to pull..... and it was all set up, and the guys went to
lunch, and i knew about the ultra tugger thing, so i put the rope on the
tugger, and stood on the pedal, and fed, and it pulled nice as can be.....
and when they came back from lunch, the pipe had wire in it.....
i've some #2's to pull in an inch and a quarter about 250' next week by
myself, so what i've found works, is to use maxis triggers, clamp the one
by the tugger with a c clamp so it's on, put a cats paw on mule tape, and
go to the other end, and feed, and let the mule tape wind up 50' or so
on the capstain on low speed, then go over, and back up the tugger,
cut the mule tape and take the ball of mule tape off the capstan, tie on
again, and repeat... it's not pretty, but it works when you are having to
pull solo.
the mule tape will want to slip between the capstan and the gearbox on
a maxxis tugger, but i made a guide to move the tape up off the gearbox
so it's in the middle of the capstan, and 50' is about the limit for 1,800 lb
test...
Make sure your insurance is paid up.
Workers comp too.
That's a good way to get hurt or get someone else hurt, not to mention the damage to the wire, conduit or the building that could occur.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
And you guarantee none of those things can happen if the rest of the crew would have been there? We don't need insurance if the rest of the crew would have been there? Too many crew members can increase number of accidents sometimes, you get more goofing around, probably have more people that are inexperienced than with a small crew, more people requires better leader if you want good performance from all of them, somebody will have a grudge against at least one other member of the crew... there are all kinds of things that can come into play.
juz4kix
Member
- Location
- Catonsville, MD U.S.A.
just in case
just in case
what ever you use to pull, stay out of the line of fire.
I had a pull (actually a pull out) where we had to set the tugger up about 100' away from the pipe. the rope had allot of energy stored in it. I was behind a column working the rope. We had put RED DANGER tape around the area to keep people away. One of the maintenance guys thought we were there to put on a show for him and decided to stand where the sheave was dogged down to 2 monolithic motor platforms with 20 ton straps. I peeked around the corner to see him standing about two feet in front of the sheave. I immediately stopped the pull and proceeded to ask him if he was an idiot or just wanted to sue someone. After a not-so-brief set of words the plant manager told the guy to get the hell away from our operation. we proceeded to pull and about a minute later the rope popped. the sheave swung into the space the first guy was standing chipping a nice sized hole out of the concrete and mangling the sheave beyond usage.
The mentioned man who got a split lip was obviously in the wrong place.
just in case
what ever you use to pull, stay out of the line of fire.
I had a pull (actually a pull out) where we had to set the tugger up about 100' away from the pipe. the rope had allot of energy stored in it. I was behind a column working the rope. We had put RED DANGER tape around the area to keep people away. One of the maintenance guys thought we were there to put on a show for him and decided to stand where the sheave was dogged down to 2 monolithic motor platforms with 20 ton straps. I peeked around the corner to see him standing about two feet in front of the sheave. I immediately stopped the pull and proceeded to ask him if he was an idiot or just wanted to sue someone. After a not-so-brief set of words the plant manager told the guy to get the hell away from our operation. we proceeded to pull and about a minute later the rope popped. the sheave swung into the space the first guy was standing chipping a nice sized hole out of the concrete and mangling the sheave beyond usage.
The mentioned man who got a split lip was obviously in the wrong place.
Of course there can be problems if there is the proper crew on the job.
Are you saying that you don't need insurance if you are not taking risks?
Also if you hire a bunch of jokers and green people you will have problems.
If you try to work alone and take unnecessary risks just to save money and have an accident, your insurance company may decide not to cover you for your incompetence.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
But if you were just goofing around and got injured they have no problem with that? What about the comment about making insurance is paid up? Does it matter if they were not going to pay anyway?
I kind of have a feeling they will pay the claim (may give you a hard time first) then threaten you with higher premium if you don't change some safety policies if they feel you are not operating in a safe manner.
Two words: Pre lubed, string/rope won't create enough friction to burn.
Wait....that wasn't two words.
That clear stuff is absolutely worthless.
The Greenlee aqua colored stuff is twice as good as the yellow 77. It feels really snotty.
Last edited:
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Greenlee aqua coloured stuff (I believe it is called Gel-Q) is the best lube ever. It is more than twice as good as yellow 77, it surpasses it on an exponential scale.
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Hi, just wanted to let you folks know how the wire pull went. It was a slightly downhill pull, so that made it lots easier. I pulled out the number 4 AWG's, after having first attached my rope to one of them, along with some 3 towels spaced about a foot apart near the head of the rope, and scooped about a gallon of Yellow 77 into the pipe. The towels cleared out small blockages, and helped distribute the soap in the pipe before the pull.
Two helpers at the downhill end pulled the rope, me and the homeowner fed the wire. 3 2/0's. (I used a ground rod at the house pull box as the grounding electrode). The wire was close to two grand, I charged a grand, and we were done by 3:00 pm.
Thank you, fellow wirepeople, for all the tips and stories.
Two helpers at the downhill end pulled the rope, me and the homeowner fed the wire. 3 2/0's. (I used a ground rod at the house pull box as the grounding electrode). The wire was close to two grand, I charged a grand, and we were done by 3:00 pm.
Thank you, fellow wirepeople, for all the tips and stories.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
kaching. spoken like a true electrician.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Sounds like cost was 2 grand, and he charged 1 grand, that is a net loss of 1 grand
No. $750 for me, $125 each helper, homeowner paid for the wire.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Wow at this thread :lol:
Well I have one suggestion:
Don't allow sand to get into PVC or your done!!!
I had a control run to install to replace an old DB tray cable that was used between the pump station and the reservoir that supplied potable water for a national park camp grounds in the Dunes state park, the distance was over a mile, and did I say Dunes? yes all sand, we at first ran 1 1/2" PVC at 300' between pull box's for 12 #12 control circuits, using an A frame over the pull point with a shiv hanging from it, and a 1/2" rope to my 1 ton van loaded to about 11k#'s we snapped that rope like it was nothing, didn't even get the wire in 100' switched to a 3/4" stronger rope, same thing, little harder pull but still snapped the rope and one time broke the pulling eye on the kellems grip, well we decided to dig up the pipe every 100' installed a pull box a pull box, it didn't make it any easier, and we got sand in the pipe (BIG MISTAKE) it was almost as hard as pulling the 300', and we had to get all the wire through to each 100' point before we could pull the next 100'.
it took us till 10:00pm to get this pull done and we already had umpteen hours on the job installing the pipe and getting everything ready, it was a nightmare, of the 1,000' of 3/4" pulling rope, after we were done we only had one piece of about 150' left not broke.
with the sand in the pipe, lubing the wire just made it worse, never again will I try a pull without running a cleaner and vacuum on the pipe, or try better at not getting sand in it, which I was not involved with laying the pipe the guys had already started it. but I made up for some of it by flagging the system as installed as it didn't have any kind of lock out if someone was working on the reservoir they couldn't lock out the pump from being turned on at the pump station, or visa versa, so I installed key switches at both locations to over come this, using a few of the spare conductors.
Well I have one suggestion:
Don't allow sand to get into PVC or your done!!!
I had a control run to install to replace an old DB tray cable that was used between the pump station and the reservoir that supplied potable water for a national park camp grounds in the Dunes state park, the distance was over a mile, and did I say Dunes? yes all sand, we at first ran 1 1/2" PVC at 300' between pull box's for 12 #12 control circuits, using an A frame over the pull point with a shiv hanging from it, and a 1/2" rope to my 1 ton van loaded to about 11k#'s we snapped that rope like it was nothing, didn't even get the wire in 100' switched to a 3/4" stronger rope, same thing, little harder pull but still snapped the rope and one time broke the pulling eye on the kellems grip, well we decided to dig up the pipe every 100' installed a pull box a pull box, it didn't make it any easier, and we got sand in the pipe (BIG MISTAKE) it was almost as hard as pulling the 300', and we had to get all the wire through to each 100' point before we could pull the next 100'.
it took us till 10:00pm to get this pull done and we already had umpteen hours on the job installing the pipe and getting everything ready, it was a nightmare, of the 1,000' of 3/4" pulling rope, after we were done we only had one piece of about 150' left not broke.
with the sand in the pipe, lubing the wire just made it worse, never again will I try a pull without running a cleaner and vacuum on the pipe, or try better at not getting sand in it, which I was not involved with laying the pipe the guys had already started it. but I made up for some of it by flagging the system as installed as it didn't have any kind of lock out if someone was working on the reservoir they couldn't lock out the pump from being turned on at the pump station, or visa versa, so I installed key switches at both locations to over come this, using a few of the spare conductors.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
If you ever do a job like that again consider looking into a cable in conduit sytem. It is a HDPE tubing with conductors alread inside. Certain combinations of conductors are stocked items at places where there is a common need like irrigation systems around here. I would think custom orders can be made or maybe there is a stocked combination close to what you need. Common center pivot need is 4-4awg aluminum conductors and 7-12awg copper conductors all in one pipe and normally in stock (not sure what max length is available - approx 1/2 mile is commonly needed.
http://www.paigeelectric.com/specs/P7304D-AG.pdf
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