AFCI Branch circuit modifications

[pennelco]

NEC 2011 article 210.12(B)
When you upgrade a existing Electrical service and load center,you sometimes may have to extend the branch circuits, to connect them into the new load center. The new code states that they need to be protected by AFCI breakers. Now you are looking at replacing the standard breakers with AFCI type breakers. Big cost difference! When and where does the rehab code apply when you doing a panel change out? We are NOT talking about new construction we are changing existing equipment.

 

[hurk27]

Much will depend upon how your state or local jurisdiction has adopted this, many states haven't adopted the 2011 yet, and Indiana wont for a long while, but we removed 210.12 when the 2002 was adopted.

 

[Gac66610]

IMO you dont need to
it states; in any of the areas listed in 210.12(a)
i'm guessing you are in an unfinished basement where your extension of the branch circuit is

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is an ahj ruling. In most areas around here if the circuit is extended to include another device or outlet then the afci would be needed. I wrote a code proposal to clariy this and the CMP agreed in principle with the concept.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
2-115 Log #536 NEC-P02
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Dennis Alwon, Alwon Electric Inc.
Add new text to read as follows:
Exception: Where extension of the branch circuit does not include any added outlets or devices.
Substantiation:
Often times when changing a service in an older home the branch circuit conductors do not reach the
new location of the panel. The wire is sometimes just spliced inside the panel to reach the termination points while other
times the circuit may need to be extended a short distance to reach the new location. Since many areas are inspecting
this differently throughout the country this exception would clarify this section and bring uniformity throughout.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise the proposed wording to read as follows:
"Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where the extension of the existing conductors is not more than 1.8
m (6 ft.) and does not include any additional outlets or devices."
The revised wording provides clarity and satisfies the intent of the submitter.

 

[Gac66610]

I like that, does make it easier to understand :thumbsup:

 

[Sierrasparky]

what is the language in the 2011 I don't have acess right now!

 

[hurk27]

what is the language in the 2011 I don't have access right now!

English

J/K

210.12(B) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications —
Dwelling Units. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A),
where branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended,
the branch circuit shall be protected by one of the
following:
(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of
the branch circuit
(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the
first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit

I believe Dennis proposal was to the 2014

 

[LEO2854]

NEC 2011 article 210.12(B)
When you upgrade a existing Electrical service and load center,you sometimes may have to extend the branch circuits, to connect them into the new load center. The new code states that they need to be protected by AFCI breakers. Now you are looking at replacing the standard breakers with AFCI type breakers. Big cost difference! When and where does the rehab code apply when you doing a panel change out? We are NOT talking about new construction we are changing existing equipment.

We are on the 2011 now and none of the Electrical inspectors are calling for AFCI's on a service change even when extending the existing circuits from one area to another to accommodate the new panel in some cases the old service was installed in bad location in the first place..


There is no way that you can price a service change and install all AFCI breakers and incorporate those circuits into the old existing circuits without allowing enough time to trouble shoot all the old wiring and fix all the existing problems that may exist unless all the Electrical contractors are charging for all that extra work.


Welcome to the forum ....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[hurk27]

We are on the 2011 now and none of the Electrical inspectors are calling for AFCI's on a service change even when extending the existing circuits from one area to another to accommodate the new panel in some cases the old service was installed in bad location in the first place..


There is no way that you can price a service change and install all AFCI breakers and incorporate those circuits into the old existing circuits without allowing enough time to trouble shoot all the old wiring and fix all the existing problems that may exist unless all the Electrical contractors are charging for all that extra work.

I agree and the reason for my post 2.

I will say that 210.12(B) is very close in violation of many states grandfather laws, and would be most likely adjusted in each state or jurisdiction as such.

 

[LEO2854]

This is an ahj ruling. In most areas around here if the circuit is extended to include another device or outlet then the afci would be needed. I wrote a code proposal to clariy this and the CMP agreed in principle with the concept.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
2-115 Log #536 NEC-P02
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
Dennis Alwon, Alwon Electric Inc.
Add new text to read as follows:
Exception: Where extension of the branch circuit does not include any added outlets or devices.
Substantiation:
Often times when changing a service in an older home the branch circuit conductors do not reach the
new location of the panel. The wire is sometimes just spliced inside the panel to reach the termination points while other
times the circuit may need to be extended a short distance to reach the new location. Since many areas are inspecting
this differently throughout the country this exception would clarify this section and bring uniformity throughout.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise the proposed wording to read as follows:
"Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where the extension of the existing conductors is not more than 1.8
m (6 ft.) and does not include any additional outlets or devices."
The revised wording provides clarity and satisfies the intent of the submitter.

I hope that ,That goes in the 2014 But i have found in many cases the circuits have to be extended more that 6 feet.


Any reason on the footage limitation?

 

[Jljohnson]

While I agree that it "shouldn't" be required when doing a service upgrade as described in the OP, the language of the 2011 NEC, IMHO, requires it. FWIW, the inspectors in my area are enforcing it that way as well. I like Dennis' proposal as well.

 

[rcarroll]

FWIW, the inspectors in my area are enforcing it that way as well. I like Dennis' proposal as well.

I'm not :happyno: And, I convinced the AHJ to not enforce it. I also agree with Dennis' proposal, which I used to substatiate my issue with the code to the AHJ.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I hope that ,That goes in the 2014 But i have found in many cases the circuits have to be extended more that 6 feet.


Any reason on the footage limitation?

I did not add the footage limitation in my proposal-- it is the bolded area. The code panel added that.