Arc faults

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Gaffen99

Senior Member
Location
new jersey
I was at a customers house for a kitchen reno. today. He shows me a current issue of Consumer Reports magazine. In it is an article that suggests that due to that latest surge in appliance recalls and possible fires, the public should have electricians install Arc Fault breakers to protect their appliances.
Did they ever think to have the manufacturers build something that won't fail? Any comments? Just putting it out here.
 
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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Gaffen99 said:
I was at a customers house for a kitchen reno. today. He shows me a current issue of Consumer Reports magazine. In it is an article that suggests that due to that latest surge in appliance recalls and possible fires, the public should have electricians install Arc Fault breakers to protect their appliances.
Did they ever think to have the manufacturers build something that won't fail? Any comments? Just putting it out here.
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I also read that article. Sad commentary on the safety of modern appliances and scary. As for the AFCI....well that is another scam IMHO.
 
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Gac66610

Senior Member
Location
Kansas
i just did a search engine didnt think to save link, typed in Consumer Report, was the first site, found article
they were recommending it in older homes saying older wiring may not be able to handle newer appliances

i have a question on ranges, say we do a spec home, put an 8 NM-W/G on a 40 amp breaker and HO buys house puts an induction range in
which requires 6 NM-W/G on a 50 amp breaker
i know the code .. 220.55, 1 range not over 12KW , only requires an 8 KW demand on service.
what about the branch circuit load to appliance?
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Gac66610 said:
i just did a search engine didnt think to save link, typed in Consumer Report, was the first site, found article
they were recommending it in older homes saying older wiring may not be able to handle newer appliances

i have a question on ranges, say we do a spec home, put an 8 NM-W/G on a 40 amp breaker and HO buys house puts an induction range in
which requires 6 NM-W/G on a 50 amp breaker
i know the code .. 220.55, 1 range not over 12KW , only requires an 8 KW demand on service.
what about the branch circuit load to appliance?
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Read the notes to table 220.55.
 
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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
texie said:
I also read that article. Sad commentary on the safety of modern appliances and scary. As for the AFCI....well that is another scam IMHO.
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The Consumer Report article that I refered to is in the March 2012 edition on page 22. I'm not sure it can be found on the web as CU keeps a real tight rein on their products. The AFCI article is something different.
 
GeorgeB

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
GeorgeB said:
That article has so many errors, beginning I believe with "National Fire Prevention Association" that a 6-year old could do better reporting and writing. I wonder if they have been made aware of its gross errors?
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I doubt it.

It would be better if they had a writer that knew something about both products.:)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
They have stated what the intent of an AFCI is pretty well. They did not mention the fact that there is a lot of controversy within the trade of whether or not the AFCI actually does what the manufacturers claim it will do.

I don't know that I would take Consumer Reports word on anything. Their results can be easily be skewed one direction or another depending on which product supporters offer more money for their reasearch. Tell me the AFCI manufacturers did not put some cash down to get CR to side with them.
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I would prefer to think that some of these writers just don't know their "ass from a hole in the ground", vs being influenced by probably not very large sums of money.

On a side note, do any of you remember how the complete joke for the punch line above goes? PM would work for me.
 
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Gaffen99

Senior Member
Location
new jersey
GeorgeB said:
That article has so many errors, beginning I believe with "National Fire Prevention Association" that a 6-year old could do better reporting and writing. I wonder if they have been made aware of its gross errors?
Click to expand...

Wow, $100.00 to install tamper resistant outlets too. I like working for free.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
Quoted from the article," (AFCI-enabled outlets are available if your circuits can't be retrofitted),"
Was I out sick the day those were on sale???? I have yet to see one.
I feel the need to add, people won't spend money they don't have to, even for fancy pants TR receptacles. Before they were required I was offering them AT MY COST in new custom homes, we were wiring, where they had children and not a single person wanted them. They did want the $12,000.00 Range though.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
kwired said:
I don't know that I would take Consumer Reports word on anything. Their results can be easily be skewed one direction or another depending on which product supporters offer more money for their reasearch.
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The entire point of consumer reports is they don't take any products for free or run on advertisers, I feel they are the most unbiased source out there even if they do make occasional gaffs



Tell me the AFCI manufacturers did not put some cash down to get CR to side with them.
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I am telling you they did not, if CR got caught doing that it would be all over for them

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/aboutus/mission/overview/index.htm
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
iwire said:
The entire point of consumer reports is they don't take any products for free or run on advertisers, I feel they are the most unbiased source out there even if they do make occasional gaffs
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I agree. They've made their living by not accepting advertisements and fighting anyone who uses their ratings for advertisement. IMO they're not influenced but sometimes mistaken.
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Most of us here do not buy large quantites of AFCIs at any one time. I think the most I have ever purchased is 10. For those of you buying larger quantites, is the price that much different? Can it get down to the $15 difference that is talked about in the NEMA article? That reference is dated to 2003.
 
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