Looked at a floor heat install today that wasnt working. Theres a bad spot under the tile somewhere. I have never installed these before but was wondering do the leads that go down to the floor from the thermostat need to be in a raceway of some sort or can they just be ran into the wall cavity? I looked at some of the manufactures web sites and it doesnt address the issue.
floor heat install
- Thread starter fireryan
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stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
Most if not all in floor heat products come with "cold" leads, which are allowable in the wall cavity. You should call the manufacture of the product you are working with for info on trouble shooting the product and a repair kit....
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
The cold leads don't produce heat like the actual product in the floor, so its wall cavity safe.... every product is different so its important to follow the manufactures directions, i've only used products from Nu-heat, and EasyHeat...
They probably used flex to simplify the snaking of the cold leads after the walls were sheet rocked, it can be a bitch after the fact, especially since strings in the wall seem to go missing after the rock is installed...
Just speaking from experience.
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stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
something like that, they are allowed to be field cut also, unlike the actual wire that heats the floor... You basically start the cold lead at the floor point and snake up the wall at that point, so the transition from "cold" lead to "hot" is under the finished floor... its a heat shrink transition... factory made.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Of the two installs we had go bad, both was because of a screw driven through it, one was a kitchen island relocated a little further away from the counter, cabinet installer drilled right into the trace line, the other was a bath cabinet which was changed to a larger one via home owner, again cabinet guy screwed right in to the trace wire, both required tracing equipment and factory repair kit. I used a Greenlee wire tracer/short locater that worked great.
you got a link for that tracer?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Sure but you might not like the price, I paid about $750.00 for mine, but I have seen them on line a little cheaper, its my eyes in the walls, floors or anywhere I need to trace my wires, there are other brands that do a good job if not to deep, and much cheaper, but this one will do live circuits as well as dead ones, and it will follow a wire over 4 miles so if you have a very long run its not a problem, but it takes some learning but once you have mastered it, you wil never want to be with out one.
Greenlee 2011
thank you
I've installed a couple or floor heat jobs myseld and have had no issues but I often wondered how I hould go about troubleshooting it is had.
If it could be verified that power was getting to the floor itself which eliminates that possibility and then to assure the neutral was intact.
After that one would assume that there may be an opening in the heat wire within the floor. I would then turn on the heat and take my little fluke volt light which looks like a pencil and track the heating wire along the floor. I would mark the spot where the indicator went out.
Then I would disconnect the L & N leads at the thermostat and reconnect the N only to the line side and re-energize the heating wire tracking backward along the floor with my volt indicator following the heat wire hopefully it would lead back to the spot that I mark. Going beyond the mark my volt light would go out. This should be the place for the break. What is allowed to fix the breaker is another issue.
If it could be verified that power was getting to the floor itself which eliminates that possibility and then to assure the neutral was intact.
After that one would assume that there may be an opening in the heat wire within the floor. I would then turn on the heat and take my little fluke volt light which looks like a pencil and track the heating wire along the floor. I would mark the spot where the indicator went out.
Then I would disconnect the L & N leads at the thermostat and reconnect the N only to the line side and re-energize the heating wire tracking backward along the floor with my volt indicator following the heat wire hopefully it would lead back to the spot that I mark. Going beyond the mark my volt light would go out. This should be the place for the break. What is allowed to fix the breaker is another issue.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
As a side note, not all in-floor heat is 120 volts....
OK, then it would have to be 240. Again since the voltage was not stated in the OP we are now in the assuming stage but one would think that a good electrician should be able to determine that.
If it was 240v it would be easier since all you need to do is disconnest one line tracing the other and then disconnect it, reconnecting the other and trace that line.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
Personally I would call the manufacture and see what help they can offer in fixing the problem, and getting an approved splice kit.
Exactly. As per my post #12 "This should be the place for the break. What is allowed to fix the break is another issue." (Besides repairing the floor)
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I'd like to hijack this thread ....
Let's use the OP's example .... Nu-heat is installed, you have a lovely log of your megger readings at every step, and everyone's happy. Several months go by, and the floor faults, or fails to work. You get the call-back, dig out your Greenlee 2011, and point to a spot on the floor and say 'here is wherre the fault is.'
For the sake of this example, let's also say the fault is in a place where it's pretty easy to identify the cause - say, that new cabinet.
The repair is going to require the cabinet be removed, the floor torn up, essentially a complete bathroom remodel .... because the mats are not repairable. The trace line might be, but the manufacturer, in his installation instructions, makes it pretty plain that a repair is not usually possible.
Someone's going to have to pay for your troubleshooting, the demolition, and the repair. I don't see the cabinet guy being very eager to foot this bill.
Where does that leave us? Do we ask the homeowner to pay for it all, and let him try to collect from the cabinet guy? Do we raise our rates, contingent on getting paid after the homeowner collects? Do we try to work something out with the tile guy? Do we piggyback our bill on the homeowners' lawsuit? Do we go after the cabinet guys' bond?
Your thoughts, please.
Let's use the OP's example .... Nu-heat is installed, you have a lovely log of your megger readings at every step, and everyone's happy. Several months go by, and the floor faults, or fails to work. You get the call-back, dig out your Greenlee 2011, and point to a spot on the floor and say 'here is wherre the fault is.'
For the sake of this example, let's also say the fault is in a place where it's pretty easy to identify the cause - say, that new cabinet.
The repair is going to require the cabinet be removed, the floor torn up, essentially a complete bathroom remodel .... because the mats are not repairable. The trace line might be, but the manufacturer, in his installation instructions, makes it pretty plain that a repair is not usually possible.
Someone's going to have to pay for your troubleshooting, the demolition, and the repair. I don't see the cabinet guy being very eager to foot this bill.
Where does that leave us? Do we ask the homeowner to pay for it all, and let him try to collect from the cabinet guy? Do we raise our rates, contingent on getting paid after the homeowner collects? Do we try to work something out with the tile guy? Do we piggyback our bill on the homeowners' lawsuit? Do we go after the cabinet guys' bond?
Your thoughts, please.
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