communication 800

[MBLES]

Can anyone explain if NEC does or doesnot apply to communcation electrical equipment.

I recently went to service a transfer switch inside a cell phone tower structure on some remote cowpasture
and the service panel was location so close to the communcation equipment that the door woukd not even
Open and I told tne cell tech that we needed to remove equipment because it violate 3' clearance and he
DEBATED that the structure didnt nnot fall under NEC rules. I told him that if it does or not the entire site
falls under OSHA and NFPA 70e and I wasnt going to perform the maintenace he requested.

I have read this Article800 and I cant see what the heck he is talking about. Does the artile only pertain
To communcation equipment or electrical also insite.

 

[augie47]

To me, the applicable NEC Article is 90.2(B)(3) and, as always, there may be more than one way to look at it, but as I see, the power wiring of the structure is covered by the NEC.

 

[MBLES]

To me, the applicable NEC Article is 90.2(B)(3) and, as always, there may be more than one way to look at it, but as I see, the power wiring of the structure is covered by the NEC.

If the NEC doesnt apply does that mean anyone can other than electricians can work on sites.

 

[augie47]

If the NEC doesnt apply does that mean anyone can other than electricians can work on sites.

THe NEC does not dicate who is allowed to install/repair electrical installations. That is a local authority issue.
90.2 simply lists wiring that is not covered by the NEC but often addressed by other Codes.

 

[qcroanoke]

Can anyone explain if NEC does or doesnot apply to communcation electrical equipment.

I recently went to service a transfer switch inside a cell phone tower structure on some remote cowpasture
and the service panel was location so close to the communcation equipment that the door woukd not even
Open and I told tne cell tech that we needed to remove equipment because it violate 3' clearance and he
DEBATED that the structure didnt nnot fall under NEC rules. I told him that if it does or not the entire site
falls under OSHA and NFPA 70e and I wasnt going to perform the maintenace he requested.

I have read this Article800 and I cant see what the heck he is talking about. Does the artile only pertain
To communcation equipment or electrical also insite.

We build these shelters, and I can tell you that we try really hard to keep all clearances to the NEC.
What the customer does with them after they take delivery is something we can't control.
You wanna see some real violations? Go to a POCO substation.........
But they are not under the NEC.

 

[augie47]

(or an electrician's outbuilding)

 

[ActionDave]

(or an electrician's outbuilding)

Or our shop.

 

[ActionDave]

We build these shelters, and I can tell you that we try really hard to keep all clearances to the NEC.
What the customer does with them after they take delivery is something we can't control.
You wanna see some real violations? Go to a POCO substation.........
But they are not under the NEC.

Are you required to keep the clearances since the shelter a manufactured, complete unit or do you try just because you want to do a good job?

All of the shelters I have worked on the panel inside had workspace but the only thing inspected was the service.

 

[ceb58]

Are you required to keep the clearances since the shelter a manufactured, complete unit or do you try just because you want to do a good job?

All of the shelters I have worked on the panel inside had workspace but the only thing inspected was the service.

The installed equipment is inspected by a third party.

We build these shelters, and I can tell you that we try really hard to keep all clearances to the NEC.
What the customer does with them after they take delivery is something we can't control.
You wanna see some real violations? Go to a POCO substation.........
But they are not under the NEC.

The agency I work for is probably in the top 5 of Mikes customers and they do a very nice job. The problem I have now with clearance, and it is not their fault, is mounting the tower light controller. Our engineers now want the COPS plug on the out side and the DT manual switch inside. This now moves disconnects further down the wall. So if I mount the controller on the provided mounting board I violate the 36" rule for the UPS disconnect.
But back to the OP's concerns. The communication tech. is full of crap. Sound like the ones I work with. I guarantee that when the building was set it had a third party sticker on the main panel door. That means it was inspected at the factory and met all NEC codes at the time. When the building was set just the service was inspected. Then comes the communication techs. installing equipment not knowing or caring about the requirements because they do not have to deal with it.

 

[qcroanoke]

Are you required to keep the clearances since the shelter a manufactured, complete unit or do you try just because you want to do a good job?

All of the shelters I have worked on the panel inside had workspace but the only thing inspected was the service.

If we want state and 3rd party approval we must meet the NEC. Most drawings are approved by the state or at the very least a 3rd party or a P.E.
What I really like is when the customer's spec's call for full NEC compliance and they expect it. Until we can't do what they want and then they are all, well, we are a utility we don't have to meet the NEC.

 

[qcroanoke]

The installed equipment is inspected by a third party.



The agency I work for is probably in the top 5 of Mikes customers and they do a very nice job. The problem I have now with clearance, and it is not their fault, is mounting the tower light controller. Our engineers now want the COPS plug on the out side and the DT manual switch inside. This now moves disconnects further down the wall. So if I mount the controller on the provided mounting board I violate the 36" rule for the UPS disconnect.
But back to the OP's concerns. The communication tech. is full of crap. Sound like the ones I work with. I guarantee that when the building was set it had a third party sticker on the main panel door. That means it was inspected at the factory and met all NEC codes at the time. When the building was set just the service was inspected. Then comes the communication techs. installing equipment not knowing or caring about the requirements because they do not have to deal with it.

Ceb knows of what he speaks, most communication techs have no clue of the NEC.

 

[MBLES]

Are you required to keep the clearances since the shelter a manufactured, complete unit or do you try just because you want to do a good job?

All of the shelters I have worked on the panel inside had workspace but the only thing inspected was the service.

I was trying to do a safe job. The door does not open 90* and a powerbay was about 18" away preventing
me from performing maintenance. And he said the site was not under NEC clearance specs, thats when I
Quoted him NFPA70e and OSHA 1910.331(a)*

 

[ceb58]

I was trying to do a safe job. The door does not open 90* and a powerbay was about 18" away preventing
me from performing maintenance. And he said the site was not under NEC clearance specs, thats when I
Quoted him NFPA70e and OSHA 1910.331(a)*

They are a private company and are under the NEC. I work for a state agency and our sites are under the NEC and the state Dept. of Admin. who have stricter rules than the NEC.

Now back to the real world. Most of these sites are going to be like that. They rent space on the towers to other users and the more they pack in the better. Doing work on these sites are a good money maker its up to you if you want to walk away, cause a stink or do the work charge well and let them know of the violations and see where it goes.

 

[qcroanoke]

Now back to the real world. Most of these sites are going to be like that. They rent space on the towers to other users and the more they pack in the better. Doing work on these sites are a good money maker its up to you if you want to walk away, cause a stink or do the work charge well and let them know of the violations and see where it goes.

CYA.
I was once asked if I would sign off a violation I had written up. Really?
If I was gonna do that do you really think I would have written it up?
Like Ceb said these sites are good money. Decide what you can live with. Most of them are visited once or twice a month by maintainers. They are not habitable and pose very little risk to people.

 

[Strife]

You talking about YOUR door? or HIS door?
His door might not, but your door definitely does.

Can anyone explain if NEC does or doesnot apply to communcation electrical equipment.

I recently went to service a transfer switch inside a cell phone tower structure on some remote cowpasture
and the service panel was location so close to the communcation equipment that the door woukd not even
Open and I told tne cell tech that we needed to remove equipment because it violate 3' clearance and he
DEBATED that the structure didnt nnot fall under NEC rules. I told him that if it does or not the entire site
falls under OSHA and NFPA 70e and I wasnt going to perform the maintenace he requested.

I have read this Article800 and I cant see what the heck he is talking about. Does the artile only pertain
To communcation equipment or electrical also insite.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Don't get to hung up on the part about it being a cell site. The only portion that the NEC dosen't have jurisdiction over, is the part that is used for communication. The electrical install (especially if they got a permit) is still covered by the NEC.

Now that being said we do plan checks and inspections of cell sites here, how other jurisdictions handle it, I don't know.

Now as someone else eluded to, once it's been signed off, who know's what they heck they do.

 

[MBLES]

Don't get to hung up on the part about it being a cell site. The only portion that the NEC dosen't have jurisdiction over, is the part that is used for communication. The electrical install (especially if they got a permit) is still covered by the NEC.

Now that being said we do plan checks and inspections of cell sites here, how other jurisdictions handle it, I don't know.

Now as someone else eluded to, once it's been signed off, who know's what they heck they do.

Yes I understand everyones post. I was really looking for answer to the question does the NEC apply
or not on cell sites. The door clearance was resolved by turning off power and performing maintenance
during maintennance window in am hours. My issue was really NEC. I was told if you are a electrical
contractor in Texas you must follow NEC as shop standards regardless of site being on communcation
company property.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yes I understand everyones post. I was really looking for answer to the question does the NEC apply
or not on cell sites. The door clearance was resolved by turning off power and performing maintenance
during maintennance window in am hours. My issue was really NEC. I was told if you are a electrical
contractor in Texas you must follow NEC as shop standards regardless of site being on communcation
company property.

That's correct