high electric bill

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electricblue

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I have a customer with a high electric bill (300 to $400) with in no a/c or heat. Should be around $200. In Florida with a mild winter. Water heater elements are good. Did a amp check A-15 B-10. Can you read an earth fault with an amp probe? POCO said that was not the case. Would a service lateral faulting to earth in front of a meter cause the meter to read it?
 
I have a customer with a high electric bill (300 to $400) with in no a/c or heat. Should be around $200. In Florida with a mild winter. Water heater elements are good. Did a amp check A-15 B-10. Can you read an earth fault with an amp probe? POCO said that was not the case. Would a service lateral faulting to earth in front of a meter cause the meter to read it?

If there is a fault to earth and you can't read it then not much current is flowing and the bill would not really reflect much of anything.

A one time check of current does not help much, you need to record current and time and see what the load is like over time. Check things that are not noticed much like refrigerators, freezers, water pumps, is there aux heat of some type that no one gave much thought to, hot tub, pool heater, electric vehicle chargers? I don't know what kind of energy vehicle chargers are expected to take but they do need energy - people kind of have a false illusion that it is free to operate these things.

Your check of 15 and 10 is a total of 3000 VA. Lets assume for now this is 100% power factor - that gives us 3kW. If that happened to run 24 hours that would be 72kWhrs - depending on the rate that may be 6 - 10 dollars a day. But it is likely what you read is lower at times and higher at others.

If this is a one time high bill make sure someone did not misread the meter or incorrectly enter the reading. If they did, next month will probably be a very low bill.
 
I have a customer with a high electric bill (300 to $400) with in no a/c or heat. Should be around $200. In Florida with a mild winter. Water heater elements are good. Did a amp check A-15 B-10. Can you read an earth fault with an amp probe? POCO said that was not the case. Would a service lateral faulting to earth in front of a meter cause the meter to read it?

You can put an amprobe aroung the ground cable but if you do see a current it most likely wouldn't reflect the power that is said to be being used. Earth is a very poor conductor of current because of its high resistance. In addition, if current was flowing to ground was an issue where is the heat? Even though there may be a small current going to ground that is of a concern because there shouldn't be any.

You may consider checking each circuit with your amprobe. But the reading that you may get are only at the time that your are standing there taking them.
 
I had one like this once. Ground floor unit of a small garden style condo bldg, slab on grade construction. I had POCO confirm the power was actually being consumed as first step. Put a recorder on the water heater-problem was obvious-water heater was drawing power pretty much 24/7. Plumber found a pin hole leak in a hot water line under the slab. Case solved.

I mention this as I note you are in Florida where copper water lines are commonly run in the slab on grade. I've actually seen this problem fairly routinely. In most parts of Florida the ground is so porous that many times the leak is not evident.

Is this a possibility in your case?
 
I had one like this once. Ground floor unit of a small garden style condo bldg, slab on grade construction. I had POCO confirm the power was actually being consumed as first step. Put a recorder on the water heater-problem was obvious-water heater was drawing power pretty much 24/7. Plumber found a pin hole leak in a hot water line under the slab. Case solved.

I mention this as I note you are in Florida where copper water lines are commonly run in the slab on grade. I've actually seen this problem fairly routinely. In most parts of Florida the ground is so porous that many times the leak is not evident.

Is this a possibility in your case?

Very true
 
I had one like this once.

If this is a one time high bill make sure someone did not misread the meter or incorrectly enter the reading. If they did, next month will probably be a very low bill.

You could have the owner contact the utility company and read the meter over the phone without having to wait for the next bill.
Happened here.......300 dollar credit.
 
I have a customer with a high electric bill (300 to $400) with in no a/c or heat. Should be around $200. In Florida with a mild winter. Water heater elements are good. Did a amp check A-15 B-10. Can you read an earth fault with an amp probe? POCO said that was not the case. Would a service lateral faulting to earth in front of a meter cause the meter to read it?

Nothing in front of the meter will have an effect on the bill.

Without some kind of recording this is going to be difficult to pinpoint, but the first step I'd take would be to verify their existing loads by estimating monthly usage of what they have connected, then identify from the bill and/or from the POCO what kind of load you're looking for. Depending on their billing, you might have the last year's usage graphed out or the POCO may be able to give you that info. Once you have an idea of how much "extra" power is being used, you can calculate what you're looking for with an amp clamp. For example, if they're showing an extra 900 kwh per month, you'd be looking for a 1.25 kw load, so 1250 watts times their voltage (at 125V about 10A). If there's a leak to ground, you can expect this load to be more or less constant throughout the day. If it's not a leak, you would have a larger load cycling on at some interval (ex. 20A with a 50% duty cycle). Worst case scenario, you'll have multiple faults to identify. You'll likely have to monitor for some time to figure it out.

A simple, relatively inexpensive setup that would help is something I recently tested - a Bluetooth adapter for Agilent handheld DMMs that works with software for an Android device which allows you to datalog and graph the readings. You can connect up to three devices for monitoring, so you can log current on L1 and L2, plus voltage between L1 and L2 to get an estimate of watts. Seeing this graphed out can really help to identify certain kinds of faults. I recently found a leaking water system that was causing the customer's water pump to cycle on and off every four minutes with this. Here's a screenshot of about 1 1/2 hours of monitoring their service:

View attachment 6699

You can see the jump every four minutes that lasts for about 1 min. 20sec. At the rates the customer pays, just the cycling on and off costs them about $30 per month.

Agilent was running a promo (probably still is) on the U1177A Bluetooth adapter ($49 item) that gets you one for free with the purchase of a DMM, so theoretically you can get three DMMs with adapters for a little over $300 plus the cost of whatever Android device you get.

Good luck!
 
Had a customer complain one time about their bill being higher. Checked around and then called the utility. Seems they had ignored the notice of the rate increase.:slaphead:
 
Peter, that is cool. What DMM are you using? I was looking at Agilent's site.

Sid

I have a U1272A, a U1242B and a U1233A.

Looks like the DMM are only rated 10a max and the clamp meters are not ir compatable

With a clamp attachment, any DMM can go up to the limit of the attachment. I have two 400A clamps, a 600A clamp and a 100A clamp. They all work fine with my DMMs.

The Agilent clamp meters ARE compatible with IR. Each one has the IR port built it, even my older U1211A, on a flat area under the battery door. I've been informed that they're in the process of making replacement battery doors with clips for the U1177A Bluetooth adapters. I have verified that mine works with the adapter by taping the two together and it worked perfectly - it even identifies the meter correctly as a U1211A.

If you can afford it, I'd recommend one U1272A and two of the cheapies (U1231A) just to get the adapters, then, when they have the battery door adapters for the clamps, get two clamp meters. That's my plan, since I don't like converting the readings from mV or mA to A with the current clamps. Either way, I think it's a really cool system at an affordable price.
 
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