2-Wire NM..

[iwire]

I don't suspect that everyday PC's are listed as information technology equipment. UL has special listings for IT equipment.

I think you will be as surprised as I was when read what that includes.

From the 2010 UL General directory.

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
EQUIPMENT INCLUDING ELECTRICAL
BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ)
USE​

This category covers equipment, appliances and systems rated 600 V or
less normally found in offices and other business establishments, residences
(homes), educational facilities, and other similar environments classified as
ordinary locations.

This equipment has been investigated for installation in information technology
equipment (computer) rooms as defined in ANSI/NFPA 75, ‘‘Protection
of Electronic Computer/Data Processing Equipment,’’ and Article 645
of ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code’’ (NEC), unless the equipment
is otherwise identified by a marking or instruction.

EQUIPMENT TYPES​

Equipment may be electronic or electromechanical in design or a combination
thereof.

Various groupings of equipment are covered under this category, such as:

Displays: Flat-panel displays, LCD displays, monitors, plasma displays.

Information processing equipment: Central processing units (CPUs),
hand-held computers (personal assistants), laptop computers, notebook
computers, pen-based computers, personal computers, point-of-sale terminals,
scanners (including portable bar code scanners), servers, work stations.

Accessories: Docking stations, flash memory cards, keyboards, mouse,
PCMCIA-memory-modem cards, port replicators, trackballs.

Information storage equipment: Automated information storage equipment,
CD-ROM/RW drives, disk drives, DVD drives, tape drives, optical
drives.

Telecommunication equipment: Cellular site equipment, cordless telephone
sets, facsimile machines, ISDN systems and telephones, modems, key
telephone systems, powerline communication equipment, private automated
branch exchanges (PABXs), telephone answering machines, telephone sets,
voicemail systems, IP telephones, IP systems, wireless telephony systems.

Office appliances: Adding machines, bursters, calculators, collators, dictation
and transcribing machines, electric typewriters, erasers, folding,
embossing and sealing machines, label printers, microfilm readers, motoroperated
file cabinets, overhead projectors, paper cutters, paper shredders,
pencil sharpeners, sorters, stackers, staplers.

Printers/Reproduction equipment: Copiers, duplicating machines, microfilm
printers, mimeograph machines, plotters, printers.

Mailing, banking and currency-handling equipment: Cash registers, coin
counters, feeders and dispensers, accounting machines, check-writing-,
-assigning, -dating, -inserting, -mailing, -numbering and -stamping
machines, point-of-sale terminals.

Multimedia equipment/accessories: Cable modems, digital cameras, DLP
projectors, LCD projectors, microphones, set top boxes, speakers, video conferencing
systems.

Network equipment: Baluns, bridges, fiber optic transceivers, hubs,
nodes, Power over Ethernet (PoE) equipment (e.g., power source equipment
[PSE] and powered devices [PD]), repeaters, routers, switches, transceivers.

Wireless (RF, infrared) transceiving equipment: RF modems, hand-held
computers with integral transceivers.

Static neutralizing equipment: Power units with discharge bars used with
or within copiers, collators, film-plate processors, digital printers, duplicating
machines and similar equipment.

Interconnecting cable assemblies: Cable assemblies intended for use
beneath raised floors of computer rooms. These assemblies are also covered
under Computer Interconnection Cable Assemblies (DVPJ).

Included within the above groupings is equipment which is battery powered,
either by standard-size consumer-replaceable batteries (e.g., AA, C, D),
or nonstandard sizes specified by manufacturer, type and ratings.

This category also covers power distribution units (PDUs) and computer
power centers investigated as part of a computer system for use exclusively
in information technology equipment (computer) rooms in accordance with
Article 645 of the NEC. This equipment is connected to branch circuits
unless otherwise indicated in the manufacturer’s installation instructions,
and it distributes power to other units in the computer system by means of
interconnecting cable assemblies complying with one or more of the wiring
methods outlined in Article 645 of the NEC. Many of these units require
special installation, such as a separate transformer, special grounding methods,
motor-generator equipment, air conditioning, etc. Such features are covered
in the manufacturer’s installation instructions

Did they leave anything out?

 

[satcom]

I think you will be as surprised as I was when read what that includes.

From the 2010 UL General directory.




Did they leave anything out?

Yes, they din't include the moon, and all the stars, that is really includes just about everything

 

[B4T]

So unless you are installing a table lamp.. figure on running a new circuit..

Nice info you found there Bob.. :thumbsup:

 

[peter d]

This is a perfect example of a silly code rule. We can install a replacement outlet but basically virtually nothing can be plugged into it. And it's totally foolish to think a homeowner can or should abide by an NEC rule once we leave the job. I think the CMP should eliminate this rule or allow everyday items to be plugged into an ungrounded GFCI.

 

[ritelec]

Agog

 

[chris kennedy]

I have a customer who has the old NM with no ground..

Easy fix is installing GFCI receptacles where needed..

At risk of straying off topic, how is this easy? Must dwellings around here that I have encountered using the described wiring method used 1?" deep handy boxes. Craming a GFCI device in there with two cables is no picnic.

 

[hurk27]

At risk of straying off topic, how is this easy? Must dwellings around here that I have encountered using the described wiring method used 1?" deep handy boxes. Craming a GFCI device in there with two cables is no picnic.

I would rather deal with an 1 1/2" handy box then a single gang Jem box with a GFCI, if anything enters through the side KO's forget installing a GFCI

 

[B4T]

At risk of straying off topic, how is this easy? Must dwellings around here that I have encountered using the described wiring method used 1?" deep handy boxes. Craming a GFCI device in there with two cables is no picnic.

Even having to change a box so the GFCI fits is still easier than rewiring a whole circuit in a finished house..

Selling a job for a few hundred dollars is going to be much easier than selling one that cost a few thousand.. :happyyes:

 

[renosteinke]

This is exactly how my 1957 house became a full-gut remodel.

Fire blocking every four feet, 2-wire romex, no attic clearance. Off comes the drywall!

Maybe it's just as well; I'm finding some pretty big gaps in the insulation- and 3-1/2" thick walls don't leave much room. I have also found that the Romex was run 'at the surface,' just under the drywall and over the insulation; even the holes in the studs are -maybe- 1" (on center) from the face of the studs. (Nail plates? Please ....).

Other issues are soldered connections (no pigtails) and small boxes. Fitting a GFCI in one can be a challenge. No ground rod and the water bond cut off.

My point is that maybe this 'computer issue' is just a wake-up call, drawing your attention to the fact that the house is simply obsolete.

 

[peter d]

My point is that maybe this 'computer issue' is just a wake-up call, drawing your attention to the fact that the house is simply obsolete.

I'm pretty sure B4T already knows that a house with 2-wire romex has an obsolete wiring system. :roll:

 

[renosteinke]

Sure ... HE knows it ... but does the customer?

At some point folks are going to have to recognize that the time for band-aids and quick fixes is over.

 

[zappy]

At risk of straying off topic, how is this easy? Must dwellings around here that I have encountered using the described wiring method used 1?" deep handy boxes. Craming a GFCI device in there with two cables is no picnic.

I haven't used them, but i've seen shallow gfci's.

 

[kwired]

At risk of straying off topic, how is this easy? Must dwellings around here that I have encountered using the described wiring method used 1?" deep handy boxes. Craming a GFCI device in there with two cables is no picnic.

Wiremold extension boxes are your best friend in this situation. If no equipment ground use a non metallic extension box.

 

[Strife]

Nothing.
The ground is supposed to trip the breaker under a fault.
The gfci trips the receptacle under a fault.
The latter is closer to the equipment than the earlier.
Why do we even have grounds on GFCI? other than most plugs come with 3 prongs nowadays, beats me.

I have a customer who has the old NM with no ground..

Easy fix is installing GFCI receptacles where needed..

My question is what happens when you have equipment like a computer that has a 3-wire cord..

What are the problems with missing ground.. if any..

 

[kwired]

Why do we even have grounds on GFCI? other than most plugs come with 3 prongs nowadays, beats me.

Did you seriously mean to ask that? GFCI is not intended to be a replacement for equipment grounding. It is the next best thing out there when equipment grounding is missing or fails. That is just for when there is a fault to ground that would otherwise open a standard overcurrent device.

GFCI is also great for interrupting low level currents when they are flowing outside the intended circuit path, like when a kitchen appliance is plugged in and is dropped in a sink full of water.

If equipment grounding conductors, especially when dealing with cord and plug connected equipment, would be more assured that there was good continuity - there would not be as much of a need for GFCI in some areas that now require it.