Holding My Cards Close

[mivey]

drive to the branch it's drawn on, and convert it immediately to a cashiers check made payable to the
same payee... have them draw the check fee out of the check amount.

do NOT just deposit it in your account.

Truer words were never spoken. I have done this on several occasions.

Does anybody know what might happen if they use the same bank as you? The first question from the teller is going to be "do you have an account with us?" and I suspect they would tap your account if something is wrong with the check. Just because they cash the check does not mean there won't be a problem later because everything is not settled immediately (I've held my breath on that a few times and I seem to recall being told I could relax after about 10 days or something like that).

 

[Fulthrotl]

Truer words were never spoken. I have done this on several occasions.

Does anybody know what might happen if they use the same bank as you? The first question from the teller is going to be "do you have an account with us?" and I suspect they would tap your account if something is wrong with the check. Just because they cash the check does not mean there won't be a problem later because everything is not settled immediately (I've held my breath on that a few times and I seem to recall being told I could relax after about 10 days or something like that).

i use wells fargo, and i go into a branch with a wells fargo check from one
of these fine sort of customers, and say i want it pulled as a cashiers check.
when they ask me if i have an account there, i say "no" and pay the fee.

the cashiers check is a stoploss. they can't come back on you..
it is a bank guaranteed instrument. they slam the account the check is
drawn on, at that instant, and you are done with your problem customer.

that check is also good for a long time..... and people have parked
money in cashiers checks for one reason or another since their have
been banks... it doesn't show anywhere... just an uncashed check.

 

[kwired]

i use wells fargo, and i go into a branch with a wells fargo check from one
of these fine sort of customers, and say i want it pulled as a cashiers check.
when they ask me if i have an account there, i say "no" and pay the fee.

the cashiers check is a stoploss. they can't come back on you..
it is a bank guaranteed instrument. they slam the account the check is
drawn on, at that instant, and you are done with your problem customer.

that check is also good for a long time..... and people have parked
money in cashiers checks for one reason or another since their have
been banks... it doesn't show anywhere... just an uncashed check.

The fact the cashiers check is going to be good is not a problem. You don't suppose they are going to get some validation on the check you presented them before issuing you a cashiers check? That could be a real easy loophole for fraud if they did not.

 

[mjf]

i use wells fargo, and i go into a branch with a wells fargo check from one
of these fine sort of customers, and say i want it pulled as a cashiers check.
when they ask me if i have an account there, i say "no" and pay the fee.

the cashiers check is a stoploss. they can't come back on you..
it is a bank guaranteed instrument. they slam the account the check is
drawn on, at that instant, and you are done with your problem customer.

The fact the cashiers check is going to be good is not a problem. You don't suppose they are going to get some validation on the check you presented them before issuing you a cashiers check? That could be a real easy loophole for fraud if they did not.

Yes, as Fulthrotl said.

 

[kwired]

i use wells fargo, and i go into a branch with a wells fargo check from one
of these fine sort of customers, and say i want it pulled as a cashiers check.
when they ask me if i have an account there, i say "no" and pay the fee.

the cashiers check is a stoploss. they can't come back on you..
it is a bank guaranteed instrument. they slam the account the check is
drawn on, at that instant, and you are done with your problem customer.



Yes, as Fulthrotl said.

And they are going to just give you a cashiers check in return for a check that they have just proven is not valid?

An account with insufficient funds but still a good account is one thing - a check from an account that is closed or does not exist... I don't know, but I would think they would refuse to honor it in any way, the fee they ask for if you are not a customer of the bank in no way even comes close to what their potential loss could be if they just issued you a cashier check. If it is a fraudulent check and you are the one that tried to cash it aren't they able to come after you for fraud as well as anyone suspected of issuing the check to you or being involved in any way?

Getting a cashier check right away is still a good practice in this situation, but if they verify the check is no good, I just don't see them giving you a cashier check. If you just deposit the check into your account, it may have been good at the time you brought it in but by the time it is processed at the bank it was drawn from it may no longer be good. I think that is what you will be protected from. Getting the cashier check just speeds up verifying that it will be honored for you, if it is later dishonored then it is the problem of the bank that issued the cashier check.

 

[zbang]

If it is a fraudulent check and you are the one that tried to cash it aren't they able to come after you for fraud as well as anyone suspected of issuing the check to you or being involved in any way?

The fraud is committed by the maker of the check, not by the person trying to negotiate it. Of course, having a paper trail that the money was owed would help defend against a fraud charge.

Getting a cashier check right away is still a good practice in this situation, but if they verify the check is no good, I just don't see them giving you a cashier check. [...] Getting the cashier check just speeds up verifying that it will be honored for you, if it is later dishonored then it is the problem of the bank that issued the cashier check.

The purpose of going to the exact branch that 'holds' the account is that they should be able to completely verify the original check for sufficient funds and a good signature, and a cashiers check so you don't have to carry around that much actual cash. And yes, if something doesn't verify, you won't get the cashiers check in return. (Some banks will tell you if there are funds in the account or not- I've called to as "Will a $900 check be honored" and told "No, don't try." Haven't had to do this for a while, though.)

On the off chance that the bank refuses to honor the check, depending on the client I'd probably call them to meet me at the bank in an hour to fix things or that I'm on my way to the local police station to report the fraud.

 

[renosteinke]

There's a reason banks are all in nice buildings, with expensive decorations- and it's not because they take chances!

When in doubt, get the money and go.

A personal example: When I bought my house, I paid in full - no loan or mortgage. I had been accumulating the funds in a number of accounts for this purpose. The bank made darn sure every transfer had been completely processed - even the ones involving accounts within their bank - before issuing the cashiers' check.

Now, if you had an account at the same bank as the check, there is another way: cash. Cash the check, then get in line again to deposit the cash into your account. Completely separate transactions- and, unless the ghost of John Dillinger is in line behind you, absolutely safe.

 

[mivey]

when they ask me if i have an account there, i say "no" and pay the fee.

Your method sounds perfect if I have no account at the bank. However, if I do have an account, I'm sure not going to say I don't. Must be another way to skin that cat.

Now, if you had an account at the same bank as the check, there is another way: cash. Cash the check, then get in line again to deposit the cash into your account. Completely separate transactions- and, unless the ghost of John Dillinger is in line behind you, absolutely safe.

If you cash a check for $1000, then deposit $1000 cash, and the check turned out to be bad, won't they still hit your account for $1000 if you gave them your account number when cashing?

they slam the account the check is drawn on, at that instant

Those transactions are electronic indeed. But isn't there a clearing/settlement process that also takes place (or used to be)?

 

[ritelec]

Gone straight away to the bank for the funds many times............................

How-ever, my son had a check he needed to cash. He went to the bank the check was written from..........with ID, he still need to have an account and sent him on his way..........


Go figure.

 

[kwired]

You could demand cashier's check or money order or cold hard cash from the customer if you are concerned whether or not their check is good. If your company accepts debit/credit cards and uses a verification service you are likely at little risk if the verification service ok's the transaction.

 

[renosteinke]

Who said anything about giving them your account number when you cashed the check? You're simply cashing a check drawn on one of their accounts. You are not required to have an account to do that. You walk away ....

.... right back into line, where you deposit simple cash into your account. There's no link between the check cashed and the cash you put into your account. Money has no earmarks, as they say.

 

[kwired]

Who said anything about giving them your account number when you cashed the check? You're simply cashing a check drawn on one of their accounts. You are not required to have an account to do that. You walk away ....

.... right back into line, where you deposit simple cash into your account. There's no link between the check cashed and the cash you put into your account. Money has no earmarks, as they say.

The check you cashed likely has your name or business name on it - so that complicates it some. The cash you received does not have any link to the check once in your posession. It is hard for them to take that cash back from you, where if you just deposit the check it is easy for them to debit your account later.

 

[mivey]

From USBank

RETURNED DEPOSITED AND CASHED ITEMS
The funds you deposit to your account are subject to normal collection processes even after we make the funds available to you for withdrawal (i.e., the check has "cleared"). If we do not collect the funds, or we need to return the funds, your deposit will be reversed and become your responsibility.
For example:

the deposit amount of the check is recorded incorrectly to your account. The person who wrote the check catches the error, and reports it to their bank, who in turn reports it to us. We would reverse the incorrect portion of the deposit and correct the mistake.

a check you deposit has a forged endorsement. The person who wrote the check notices the forgery and reports it to their bank, who reports it to us. We would reverse the deposit and collection of the check would become your responsibility.

this also applies to checks we might cash for you that you don?t deposit. For example, if you bring a check to us and take cash back from a deposit, or we simply cash the check and if that check "bounces" (is returned to us unpaid), we can take the money from your account to reimburse us for the check and you will have to collect it through other channels. There will be a fee for such a transaction as well.

 

[kwired]

From USBank

Easily done when you have an account at bank where the check is cashed. If you do not have an account there, they will have extra steps to take to try to get money back from you - but they likely will pursue doing so. At same time, this is reason most banks will not cash checks for people that do not have an account with them. If the check is from a customer that holds an account at that bank - maybe they will cash it, or if it is a government check, payroll check, or cashiers check they likely will - but may charge a fee to do so.

If a bad check is issued the bank is going after someone - it usually is the one that presented it for cash or deposit, and it is up to that party to go after the person that issued them the check. If they did not go after someone we would have a lot more check fraud than we have.

 

[Fulthrotl]

And they are going to just give you a cashiers check in return for a check that they have just proven is not valid?

no, of course not.... but if i go to the bank a check is drawn on, and say i want
it converted to a cashier's check with the SAME payee, they will see if there are
funds to cover it, and if they are they will issue a cashiers check for that amount,
less their check fee, which often amounts to $20 or so.

that way, the check i have in my hot little hand, by the time it gets processed
a week or so later, will still be good.

if the funds aren't there, they give me the check back, and i go off to have a
chat with the person who wrote me the check....

the reason i want a cashiers check is that the check i was given was most likely
made payable to my business name, and they won't cash a check and give you
cash on an bank instrument like that.

the bank is simply reissuing the check as a cashier's check. this means the
person who made the check has their account debited at that instant, and
there is no way that they can stop payment, or have NSF later on.

any bank will do it.... i have had to to it every now and again over the years.

farmers and merchants, however, rocks. i walked in there once with a check
for $36,000 and wanted it in cash, and they didn't even blink.... just counted
out the money.... after verifying the funds were available, of course.

and, the check was made payable to "cash". it was a bearer bond.... i will admit
they did call up the company who issued it to verify it first... checks made payable
to "cash" didn't even have to be endorsed, but since the patriot act, things have
changed a bit....

 

[Speshulk]

We are 99% complete with a project for a large national retail store builder. We were supposed to collect 25% shortly after starting. We have not seen a penny on this job which is a $12k job for us. I called the project manager at the office Friday and let him know that we would not have a final inspection until I see a check for full payment on the job site. That set this desk jockey off because he knows that he can't get occupancy until I have my final inspection. We have more than held up our end and accommodated their schedule, jumped through all their paperwork hoops, and of course they have haven't paid, been very slow on signing change orders, made us fax our paperwork to them 6 times until we had it in "their" format, and on and on. Is this a good position for us to be in or is there something I may be overlooking, that is holding the "not getting a final until I see a check" card, or should I play my cards a little more loose?

Why did you continue working when you didn't get your 25%? When you let that slip, they looked at you as a push over and now they're taking what they can get. Sounds like you need to write more specific payment terms in the future.

 

[Speshulk]

Yup, but that could end up costing some real money in court costs and legal fees. It's a shame he has to jump all the hoops.

We have a clause in our contracts that reads, "All legal costs necessary to collect a past due balance will be paid by customer."

 

[growler]

Truer words were never spoken. I have done this on several occasions.

Does anybody know what might happen if they use the same bank as you? The first question from the teller is going to be "do you have an account with us?" and I suspect they would tap your account if something is wrong with the check. Just because they cash the check does not mean there won't be a problem later because everything is not settled immediately .

Normally with legitimate business transactions they will pay your company from an account on their company. These are commercial accounts and cannot be cashed and must be deposited.

If they use the same bank as you do that's good. When I take a commercial check in that's drawn on my bank ( same bank) and if it's any size at all I ask the teller to check for available funds. then I ask them to put a hold on said funds to make sure I get paid before anyone else from this account.


The customer will never know that I don't trust anyone and it makes sure that I get my money. There is not a general contractor that's been born that I trust.

 

[growler]

no, of course not.... but if i go to the bank a check is drawn on, and say i want
it converted to a cashier's check with the SAME payee, they will see if there are
funds to cover it, and if they are they will issue a cashiers check for that amount,
less their check fee, which often amounts to $20 or so.

that way, the check i have in my hot little hand, by the time it gets processed
a week or so later, will still be good.

if the funds aren't there, they give me the check back, and i go off to have a
chat with the person who wrote me the check....

the reason i want a cashiers check is that the check i was given was most likely
made payable to my business name, and they won't cash a check and give you
cash on an bank instrument like that.

the bank is simply reissuing the check as a cashier's check. this means the
person who made the check has their account debited at that instant, and
there is no way that they can stop payment, or have NSF later on.

any bank will do it.... i have had to to it every now and again over the years.

Thanks for the tip. I'm always glad to learn a new trick to protect myself.

 

[zog]

We have never done business with this company before. They keep telling me "we are a $150 million company. Of course, we'll pay."

Many of them don't, did you do a credit check? D&B report?