14/2 14/3 romex in residential construction

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vango

Member
Location
Texas
Our AHJ has not allowed 14 gage romex for decades. The Ordinance keeping the wiring method as prohibited is now being considered for removal. The pros and cons are being weighed in detail. The question is: Does your AHJ allow 14 gage romex wiring?
and can you share your location, State, county, city?
 
lefty

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
14 AWG

14 AWG

Not allowed in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I am not aware of any other jurisdictions abolishing it. I have seen AHJ's allow 14awg for switch legs on 20 amp circuits, I wouldn't do it though.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
vango said:
Our AHJ has not allowed 14 gage romex for decades. The Ordinance keeping the wiring method as prohibited is now being considered for removal. The pros and cons are being weighed in detail. The question is: Does your AHJ allow 14 gage romex wiring?
and can you share your location, State, county, city?
Click to expand...

Does the AHJ prohiit the use of 14AWG conductors period or just 14AWG NM cable?

Just in dwellings or in all occupancies?

I use 14 AWG in dwellings almost exclusively for lighting, for receptacle outlets even on circuits where 15 amp circuits are permitted I almost exclusively use 12 AWG.

Non dwellings can vary - just depends on what the needs are, 120 volt convenience receptacles is almost always on 20 amp circuits but lighting or other specific loads could be 15 amp circuits. I end up running a lot of motor control circuits at times and usually use 14AWG for them - many control device terminals may accept 12AWG but is not easy to work with and is totally not worth it for loads that are normally less than 1 amp.

Edit: just re -read the title of thread - you are probably talking dwellings only - but am curious anyway about what they say about other occupancies - as well as looking for a good reason to ban 14 AWG period. If it is done correctly it is not a problem.
 
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G

Gac66610

Senior Member
Location
Kansas
Use it all the time, Kansas, counties :
Atchison, Douglas, Geary, Riley, Shawnee, Wabunsee ... etc. all over the N.E.
every city in those counties
 
lefty

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
residential

residential

lefty said:
Not allowed in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I am not aware of any other jurisdictions abolishing it. I have seen AHJ's allow 14awg for switch legs on 20 amp circuits, I wouldn't do it though.
Click to expand...

I wanted to edit this to include, that Oklahoma City, Oklahoma uses this restriction I believe on branch circuits, it does not apply to control applications and the like in industrial, and motor control situations. Basically to keep individuals, maintenance personnel, and home as well as mobile home owners from throwing in the 20 or 30 amp single pole breaker on the 15 amp circuit and starting a fire.........yes it still happens everyday.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
In know of no jurisdictions in TN that prohibit 14 NM.
A number of local contractors prefer it on lighting due to ease in terminating and reduction of potential box-fill problems.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
lefty said:
I wanted to edit this to include, that Oklahoma City, Oklahoma uses this restriction I believe on branch circuits, it does not apply to control applications and the like in industrial, and motor control situations. Basically to keep individuals, maintenance personnel, and home as well as mobile home owners from throwing in the 20 or 30 amp single pole breaker on the 15 amp circuit and starting a fire.........yes it still happens everyday.
Click to expand...

That is the most pathetic reason to not allow it - yet is probably the most common where it is the rule.

I run into what is supposed to be 20 amp circuits protected by 30 amp fuses and breakers all the time. 30 amp fuse holders at least are going to limit maximum fuse size to 30 amps. The only thing keeping the non electricians from installing even larger circuit breakers is the fact they normally can't find a single pole breaker larger than a 30 at hardware stores or home centers, otherwise I suspect we would see even larger ones at times - and they are availale from electrical suppliers - may not be in stock but are available.

I do run into double pole breakers sized too large for the conductor being supplied somewhat frequently (not including motor circuits where that is normal and allowed) I have even occasionally run into the QO series molded case switch that comes with A/C disconnects installed in place of a circuit breaker - talk about too high of an overcurrent device setting, this setup makes the feeder or service overcurrent protection the only protection there is for that circuit.
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Wouldn't it be much easier to ask which jurisdictions don't allow it?

I thought the pipe only rule in Chicago was one of the most ridiculous, this is right up there with it.....:roll:
 
V

vango

Member
Location
Texas
Yes COW, the question could have been worded a little better for specific "Jurisdictions". I will try to be more specific, our Jurisdiction modified Table 310.5 of the 2008 NEC as follows.

Table 310.5 Minimum size of conductors;
Minimum Conductor Size (awg)
conductor voltage rating................copper................aluminum or copper-clad
.........Volts..................................................................aluminum
.......0--2000................................12...................................2
....2001--8000............................... 8...................................2
...8001--15000..............................2...................................2
..15001--28000.............................1...................................1
..28001--35000............................1/0...............................1/0

What the jurisdiction had in mind (I think) was to limit article 334.12 to not less than #12 and any Al to not less than #2 for residential/commercial applications. An attempt to keep branch circuits to Cu and feeders Cu and/or Al. Obviously, there's problems.

Currently the Jurisdiction is attempting to remove this modification and roll with the 2011 NEC across the board (other ordinances to go away also). However many of the EC's want the modified table 310.5 (now 310.106) to remain. I say its too problematic.... I have my argument particularly when it comes to motor control, dedicated equipment branch circuits, and the like... Looking for more or am I just missing something with this.
 
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cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
vango said:
Our AHJ has not allowed 14 gage romex for decades. The Ordinance keeping the wiring method as prohibited is now being considered for removal. The pros and cons are being weighed in detail. The question is: Does your AHJ allow 14 gage romex wiring?
and can you share your location, State, county, city?
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't you allow it. California, Ventura, Simi Valley.

Now my question, Do they allow NM cable in commercial?

There are some local jurisdictions that don't allow any NM cable.
 
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cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
jumper said:
NM-B?
Click to expand...

I should have just typed NM. Most jurisdictions around here don't allow it in commercial, but there is no NEC rule against it. We didn't allow it for years and that was before I got here, but the BO took it out of the local ordinances, because we couldn't justify not allowing it.
 
V

vango

Member
Location
Texas
This is our current ordinance. Still based in the 2008NEC.
Types NM, NMC, and NMS
2008 NEC
article 334.10 Uses Permitted. (amended as)
(2) multifamily dwellings permitted to be type III, IV, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12.
Non metallic sheathed cable shall be used only for temporary work or in R-2 (apartments only), R-3 and R-4 occupancies (and their accessory structures),none of which may exceed four (4) floors. Nonmetallic sheathed cable shall be limited to four (4) stories of habitable space not including a parking garage, or limited to three (3) stories of habitable space above a single story parking garage, but in no case shall the wiring method exceed four (4) stories. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15 minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies.
(3) Other structures to be of Type III, Iv, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12
Nonmetallic sheathed cable shall be used only for temporary work or in single story detached structures under 2000 square feet in area served by electric service two hundred (200) amperes or less, in buildings of use groups B, or S-2 where approved by the AHJ.


If the 2011NEC is adopted "as is" without amendments then NM, NMC, and NMS will be applicable to
commercial as well with restrictions as per 334.12 (2011)
If this be the case in your Jurisdiction, what are some of the problems that have been encountered?
 
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