GFCI Breaker tripping

[102 Inspector]

A detached garage was sub-fed from the home with 4-wire assembly to a subpanel. Neutrals and grounds were isolated in the subpanel with the grounding bar kit bonded to the enclosure through the bonding screw. The homeowner installed 2- GFCi breakers to protect the general purpose receptacles and immediately the breakers trip with no load on them. A regular breaker was installed and no tripping. The homeowner wants the breaker instead of receptacles, but as the inspector, I have no clue what is wrong with this installation that is causing the tripping. Any thoughts?

 

[jumper]

Neutral and EGC touching in receptacles is first thought.

 

[jumper]

GFCI breakers are in sub panel, correct?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If this is a mwbc then 2 sp gfci breakers will not work but it appears the homeowner has something wired incorrectly. I will advise they get an electrician. I will travel for a small fee.....:happyno:

 

[jumper]

If this is a mwbc then 2 sp gfci breakers will not work but it appears the homeowner has something wired incorrectly. I will advise they get an electrician. I will travel for a small fee.....:happyno:

2 bucks enough, I am a little short this month.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

2 bucks enough, I am a little short this month.

that's more than I am making sitting here. :lol:

 

[102 Inspector]

The GFCI's are located in the sub-panel in the garage. A circuit was connected to each breaker that served 8 receptacles in the garage each. Each circuit is #12 non-metallic cable with no shared neutrals. All the field wiring looks very good, so an electrician is a is not required in this jurisdiction (I can feel the shutter across the web). Breakers have been exchanged prior to my inspection to make sure they were not defective. I guess I will have him start back at the first plug and connect until the problem is found. I can inspect but trouble shooting goes beyond my normal duties. Something about liabiity comes to mind.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is nice of you to try and help however as an inspector I would do exactly what you stated. Start at the first outlet and work onward.
There could be staples or nails in the circuit etc. Lots of possibilities.

 

[jumper]

Why is an inspector trouble shooting? If it does not pass: Are you not finished? Seems like it it is HO problem.

 

[jumper]

that's more than I am making sitting here. :lol:

Tell you what: I'll double your Mod salary. Let's see 2 x nothing =

 

[sameguy]

I would open up at the mid point and work from that in 1/2s. Cuts down trouble shooting time.

 

[hillbilly1]

I would open up at the mid point and work from that in 1/2s. Cuts down trouble shooting time.

Divide and conquer, one of the oldest troubleshooting methods around!

 

[Gac66610]

I would first remove the cover plates, could just a ground touching the grounded screw on the receptacle, which can normally be spotted at a glance

 

[ptonsparky]

I would put my megger on it if the Tpro didn't sound it out first and I would charge at least 2.5 plus a little.

 

[hurk27]

I would just remove the neutral and hot off the breaker and put an audible continuity tester on the neutral and ground if it sounds then remove each receptacle and connection till you find it, starting in the middle of the run like said.

Possibilities:
grounded neutral
wrong neutral grabbed where the circuits come together in a common box
using the EGC for a neutral
bad outside runs underground?
outside receptacles that have gotten water in them?

GFCI's do not care what happens ahead of them only after (load side)

Since we are in the same state I wouldn't mind coming over they and fixing it, but the cost of gas would be a deal killer, your about 2 hours from me I think (Fort Wayne) straight down US 30 from me

 

[growler]

The homeowner installed 2- GFCi breakers to protect the general purpose receptacles and immediately the breakers trip with no load on them.

Check to see if the homeowner installed the breaker correctly. Neutral terminated at breaker and that they are not crossed ( one circuit with another ).

It's easy for a homeowner to miss something simple by not understanding how it works in the first place. They look at something installed one place and think that if what they do looks the same it will work.

 

[102 Inspector]

The culprit was finally found in a factory supplied cord and plug connection to a fluorescent light fixture that was plugged in. I looked at everything field installed and found no issues and still had me stumped. Homeowner finally said he had plugged lights in and never thought it would be the issue. Wire connector had nicked the neutral wire and allowed grounding to the fixture itself. Why is it always the little thigns that trip us every time. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Little Bill]

I would open up at the mid point and work from that in 1/2s. Cuts down trouble shooting time.

Divide and conquer, one of the oldest troubleshooting methods around!

I have used this method but have a question. If you don't know what all is on the circuit or which way the wiring is done, how do you know where the mid point is?:?

I just did some work in a empty house and found the circuit from the GFCI breaker ran first to a wall receptacle in the garage.
Then to an outside recep.
Then to a bath on the back/end of house
Then back towards the panel to another bath

This wiring route was not the way you would think looking at how the house was layed out.

 

[JDB3]

I appreciate the inspectors that go the extra mile. I have encountered both types.:happyyes::happysad:

 

[ActionDave]

I have used this method but have a question. If you don't know what all is on the circuit or which way the wiring is done, how do you know where the mid point is?:?

I just did some work in a empty house and found the circuit from the GFCI breaker ran first to a wall receptacle in the garage.
Then to an outside recep.
Then to a bath on the back/end of house
Then back towards the panel to another bath

This wiring route was not the way you would think looking at how the house was layed out.

In this instance you have to add code history and the age of the house into your trouble shooing mental reference.

There was a time, starting in late seventies on up into the nineties, where GFCI protection was required or expanded into all the areas you mentioned but having a separate circuit to the bathroom was not.