NEMA 12 Enclosures and No-Load Disconnects.

Status
Not open for further replies.

patrox2000

Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Hello everyone,

I got a couple of questions:

1. Is a NEMA type 12, heavy duty disconnect suitable for outdoor installation? ever?
2. What is a "no-load" circuit breaker or disconnect? why would i purchase a breaker that is not rated to break a load?

thanks.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
1) NEMA 12 is not suitable for wet location use, but it may have other markings in addition to the NEMA 12 marking

2) If you are taking about devices marked "do not open under load", I have never seen a breaker so marked, but have seen disconnects and molded case switches marked that way.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Hello everyone,

I got a couple of questions:

1. Is a NEMA type 12, heavy duty disconnect suitable for outdoor installation? ever?
No, NEMA 12 has no test criteria for outdoor use, ever. Lots of mfrs sell "drip shield kits" for their Type 12 enclosures, but you will never see them state or even imply that this makes them outdoor rated, yet many people believe it to be true. Many people, EXCEPT inspectors. Type 12 is INDOOR dust tight, drip tight, industrial use (meaning you need a tool to access it), that's it.

2. What is a "no-load" circuit breaker or disconnect? why would i purchase a breaker that is not rated to break a load?

thanks.
You might use a no-load rated disconnect where there is something else rated for load break in the system and it must be open before you can engage the disconnect anyway, then the disconnect is only there to provide an air gap isolation from the line for safety. A classic example is on Medium Voltage equipment where a vacuum contactor is used in the circuit to break the load, but a vacuum contactor is not a safe way to isolate a load if someone is working down stream (many people are unaware of that by the way). So when you start to pull the disconnect handle, a control circuit interlock on the handle itself drops out the vacuum contactor coil and breaks the load, then before you can open the door, the no-load disconnect opens and provides an air gap to safely isolate you from the line voltage. You can use a load-break rated disconnect as well, but they are 3x the physical size or more.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Hello everyone,

I got a couple of questions:

1. Is a NEMA type 12, heavy duty disconnect suitable for outdoor installation? ever?
2. What is a "no-load" circuit breaker or disconnect? why would i purchase a breaker that is not rated to break a load?

thanks.

NEMA 12 is not designed for outdoor use. having said that, there are a bazillion people who have installed NEMA 12 stuff outdoors and it seems to work just fine. Some times you can get a kit to convert a type 12 device into a type 3R. Sometimes they come that way already. it is also not all that unusual for type 12 devices to also be rated as type 4, which is suitable for outdoor use.

Disconnects are not required to be able to make or break a load. they are solely a disconnecting means. That does not mean that a single device cannot serve multiple functions, just that the device providing the disconnect function is not required to also make or break any load.

I have also seen type 1 stuff installed outdoors as a cost saving measure. sometimes inside a type 3R or 4 enclosure, or some kind of shelter. sometimes not. It always seemed to work fine. the worst of it seemd to be that the metal case rusted pretty quick.

BTW - I do not have an issue with installing type 1 stuff outside if it is contained inside an appropriate enclosure or shelter. It can be a cost effective option sometimes.
 
Last edited:

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I realized this post might be interpreted as suggesting the use of a type 12 device outside exposed to the weather.

I did not mean to imply that.

I do think that if there is existing type 12 stuff outside exposed to the weather it is not a high priority thing to be "fixing" them.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Like I said, in SPITE of some people doing it, that does not mean it is OK.

While it's true that some of the newer Type 12 industrial enclosures from major mfrs like Hoffman are dual rated as Type 12/4, you cannot extrapolate that all of them are. If it does not specifically mention type 4 on the label, it is not rated for outdoor use, even with the drip shield kits.

A few Mfrs attempted to show the kits as being able to make the enclosures rated for type 3R, but UL clamped down on that practice and forced them all to change. The reason is, type 3R specifically allows to the ability to allow INTERNAL condensation to drain out, which means a hole in the bottom of the box somewhere. What the "3R kit" people did was instruct the end user to drill a hole in a NEMA 12 box. But NEMA was never a testing authority and when the code started requiring NRTL listing, UL took over the type testing and listing of enclosures under UL Standard 50. In true UL fashion, they NEVER allow for the rating of an enclosure to be dependent upon the actions or skill of the installer, so all "3R kits" became null and void.

The Type 12/4 enclosures do not need the weep hole because the type 4 test is to EXCLUDE all moisture. But it still presents a problem outdoors where temperature swings can cause condensation. Technically if you drill a hole though, you violate the rating of the box. So what you are SUPPOSED to do is use a NEMA 4 rated condensate drain fitting. Nobody does, I'm just speaking about the rules.

If however the question about NEMA 12 was also about the disconnect switch, then it's likely that if a disconnect is rated Type 12, it is usually not dual rated as Type 4. If you want to put it outside, it has to be type 3R or Type 4.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Technically if you drill a hole though, you violate the rating of the box.

That is a widely held misconception. UL has specific rules in place for this kind of thing as to what kind of penetrations are allowed for each type of enclosure.

In any case, taking this kind of thing to some of the absurdly legalistic places that some of us seem to want to do is kind of counterproductive.
 

patrox2000

Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Contractor Fault

Contractor Fault

Thanks for the additional replies.

I specified a 3R enclosure on a roof PV installation and the contractor provided NEMA 12 instead. I just received the O&M manual for review, but never received the disconnect switch submittal. one of my comments was to provide the 3R disconnects.

I just wanted to make sure NEMA 12 wasn't allowed outdoors cause that's what i thoguht and read previously. I would never allow a NEMA 1 outside, and now for sure I wont allow NEMA 12's outside (without dual /4 rating) either.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I would never allow a NEMA 1 outside, and now for sure I wont allow NEMA 12's outside (without dual /4 rating) either.
Some manufacturers do have Type 12/3R enclosures that are UL listed for use outdoor by following specific factory supplied instructions (i.e. a drain screw has been removed). These are fairly common in disconnect switches and combination starters.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Thanks for the additional replies.

I specified a 3R enclosure on a roof PV installation and the contractor provided NEMA 12 instead. I just received the O&M manual for review, but never received the disconnect switch submittal. one of my comments was to provide the 3R disconnects.

I just wanted to make sure NEMA 12 wasn't allowed outdoors cause that's what i thoguht and read previously. I would never allow a NEMA 1 outside, and now for sure I wont allow NEMA 12's outside (without dual /4 rating) either.

My first choice would be not allowing type 1 or 12 outdoors, unless it was also dual rated as something more suitable.

Having said that, there are a ton of type 1 things of all types installed outside that have been there for years w/o discernible problems. personally, I might be less worried about a type 1 enclosure outside than a type 12. if you look at how a type 1 versus a type 3r enclosure is made there is almost no difference other than the 3r style enclosure is made to shed rain better. but in the end the biggest thing about a 3r enclosure really is that while the water can get in, it just drains right out without getting on any live parts. most type 1 boxes end up providing the same level of protection anyway, even if they don't technically meet the requirements. even a type 12 does the same thing, EXCEPT that often they are not arranged to drain water that gets inside. a type 1 or 3r has no gasketing usually so water naturally drains out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top