Multifamily DIY electrical repair restrictions

[Bernard1599]

Because of the family density in multifamily dwellings, are any of you aware of any AHJ restrictions for DIY electrical repair work in these types of buildings in jurisdictions that you work? I am speaking of direct replacement of like kind defective receptacles, switches and/or lighting fixtures,etc. Wouldn't there be increased liability for the owner that performs a shoddy repair if such a repair were to cause damage or loss of life in such a building.

Thank you,
Bernard

 

[GUNNING]

B U R N O U T C A S E!

B U R N O U T C A S E!

Who was damaged and can there be a dollar amount placed on it?
The damages can't be more than the profit to replace the device.
We have Shared liability so all parties are liable. It's complicated and you need an attorney.

That's the Florida standard.


Good luck finding an attorney willing to accept that 30% of a total $100 fee for a receptacle repair of which $30 was profit.
Law of diminishing returns applies here.

Also when someone stars out looking for liability, it is time to head for the door. It turns into a goal.:jawdrop:

 

[Speshulk]

Who was damaged and can there be a dollar amount placed on it?
The damages can't be more than the profit to replace the device.
We have Shared liability so all parties are liable. It's complicated and you need an attorney.

That's the Florida standard.


Good luck finding an attorney willing to accept that 30% of a total $100 fee for a receptacle repair of which $30 was profit.
Law of diminishing returns applies here.

Also when someone stars out looking for liability, it is time to head for the door. It turns into a goal.:jawdrop:

So if I'm following what you're saying correctly, if a contractor repairs a circuit in a $1,000,000.00 home and does it incorrectly and it burns down the entire house, he'd only be liable for what his profit was on the repair?

 

[satcom]

Because of the family density in multifamily dwellings, are any of you aware of any AHJ restrictions for DIY electrical repair work in these types of buildings in jurisdictions that you work? I am speaking of direct replacement of like kind defective receptacles, switches and/or lighting fixtures,etc. Wouldn't there be increased liability for the owner that performs a shoddy repair if such a repair were to cause damage or loss of life in such a building.

Thank you,
Bernard

Yes, in many states a multifamily dwelling requires electrical installations, and repairs to be preformed by a licensed bonded, and insured electrican , permits are not always required for some repair work, but they must be licensed, homeowners of single family homes that they occupy are allowed to to repairs in their own home but will be required to obtain permits for electrical new work, every state have laws that may differ, so you need to check with your state and local AHJ

On the insurance issue, if you are working in multi family homes, the loss could go into the millions, on some with high density like a group of condos or garden appartments where fire spread can level an entire complex, and if it is found you did shoddy work you may make a enjoy a stay with the state and if there is loss of live due to your work, it could involve criminal charges, so if you are doing work in multi family dwellings, might be a good idea to have decent coverages with error and ommisions, and not some cheap $700 year to year, electrical contractors insurance policy.

 

[jumper]

Because of the family density in multifamily dwellings, are any of you aware of any AHJ restrictions for DIY electrical repair work in these types of buildings in jurisdictions that you work? I am speaking of direct replacement of like kind defective receptacles, switches and/or lighting fixtures,etc. Wouldn't there be increased liability for the owner that performs a shoddy repair if such a repair were to cause damage or loss of life in such a building.

Thank you,
Bernard

Which jurisdiction in MD? The laws/codes vary greatly in this darn state depending where you are at.

 

[GUNNING]

yup

 

[Bernard1599]

Which jurisdiction in MD? The laws/codes vary greatly in this darn state depending where you are at.

Baltimore & Carroll counties.

 

[Bernard1599]

Just to clarify my original post, I am speaking about Condo Owners in multifamily buildings doing their own electrical repair work, not licensed electricians. Should they be able to do their own electrical repairs or like kind replacement of electrical devices since a faulty install may put other residents in danger?

Bernard

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Should they be able to or does the law allow it may be two different animals. In NC a homeowner is allowed but they could be required to take a test. The condo itself may have laws or rules that require owners to hire licensed individuals.

 

[K8MHZ]

I may be biased, but I don't think people should be able to work on stuff they don't own outright.

I just read a thread on a ham radio site where a guy in a rented house drilled holes in the basement floor and put ground rods in the holes.

I also work on rentals in between tenants and get to see how creative the average tenant can be.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I may be biased, but I don't think people should be able to work on stuff they don't own outright.

Condo owners own their units-- they just happen to be connected to other units and supposedly there are fire walls. In NYC many of the homes are connected together.

Personally I don't like HO messing with electrical even on their own homes. If they got it inspected that is one thing but they rarely do.

 

[satcom]

In New Jersey

Homeowners should also be aware that under the Electrical Contractors Licensing Law, homeowners of a single-family, detached dwelling unit may perform their own electrical work. Homeowners of condominiums, townhouses, duplexes or any multi-family building, as well as those affiliated with an Association, must hire a New Jersey licensed electrician to perform any electrical work in their home.

 

[kwired]

If a problem at a replaced receptacle causes a large apartment complex to entirely burn down, I would sure hope the guy that replaced the receptacle hires an attorney, and they bring up things like fire protection systems, fire resistant construction practices, and other related building code violations, that may have prevented as much damage as there was.

Not saying it won't be an ugly process, but the problem at the receptacle was only a part of the disaster.

 

[satcom]

If a problem at a replaced receptacle causes a large apartment complex to entirely burn down, I would sure hope the guy that replaced the receptacle hires an attorney, and they bring up things like fire protection systems, fire resistant construction practices, and other related building code violations, that may have prevented as much damage as there was.

Not saying it won't be an ugly process, but the problem at the receptacle was only a part of the disaster.

Your right it does not take much for a large complex to level, the new ones with all the manufactured bulding products, burn faster then the older construction, and if the fire starts on a windy day, you end up with a leveled mess, there are many ways a fire starts, and electrical always gets the blame, get make sure you have good insurance to cover larger claims, if you going to do work in condos and commercial buildings.

 

[George Stolz]

Just to clarify my original post, I am speaking about Condo Owners in multifamily buildings doing their own electrical repair work, not licensed electricians. Should they be able to do their own electrical repairs or like kind replacement of electrical devices since a faulty install may put other residents in danger?

Bernard

I'd say that having a law in place to prevent it would be ineffective. How would anybody know the receptacle had been replaced?

Why should an electrical contractor care about this?

 

[Bernard1599]

I'd say that having a law in place to prevent it would be ineffective. How would anybody know the receptacle had been replaced?

I would think that having a law in place or having a rule in the HOA's bylaws would at least make the DIY "electrician" think twice before performing the electrical repair and make them more culpable for any damages or personal injuries that may occur.

Why should an electrical contractor care about this?

If he lives in the building and is aware of fellow owners doing their own electrical repairs. If I or my parents lived in a condo building I know I would care. Wouldn't you?

Bernard

 

[kwired]

I would think that having a law in place or having a rule in the HOA's bylaws would at least make the DIY "electrician" think twice before performing the electrical repair and make them more culpable for any damages or personal injuries that may occur.



If he lives in the building and is aware of fellow owners doing their own electrical repairs. If I lived in a condo building I know I would care. Wouldn't you?

Bernard

Before an owner is going to care they have to realize what the consequences could be if they do something wrong. (I'm talking about safety not law). There are so many non professionals that have installed things that appeared to be successful because the item did what it was supposed to when they turned a switch on. This gives them a false sense that they know what they are doing.

 

[George Stolz]

I would think that having a law in place or having a rule in the HOA's bylaws would at least make the DIY "electrician" think twice before performing the electrical repair and make them more culpable for any damages or personal injuries that may occur.

Interesting. I would think oppressive HOAs would have the inverse effect, from spite. I do not have any clinical studies to confirm or disprove that, however.

If he lives in the building and is aware of fellow owners doing their own electrical repairs. If I or my parents lived in a condo building I know I would care. Wouldn't you?

Would I get nervous knowing that someone in my condo swapped a receptacle without hiring an electrician? :roll:

Man, if something like that is all I have to worry about in any given day that is a really good day.

 

[Bernard1599]

Interesting. I would think oppressive HOAs would have the inverse effect, from spite. I do not have any clinical studies to confirm or disprove that, however.

I agree. Sort of like those oppressive speed limit signs in condo communities that cause people to speed just to spite the HOA. Or those oppressively designated handicapped parking spaces that cause people without disabilities to use that space for spite. And those oppressive "Children at play" road signs that are disregarded just for spite. I guess spiteful people will do spiteful things...but if there are no rules or laws then ALL people will do anything that they please and endanger everyone.

Would I get nervous knowing that someone in my condo swapped a receptacle without hiring an electrician?
Man, if something like that is all I have to worry about in any given day that is a really good day.

Cavalier attitudes have been the cause of many injuries and casualties.

 

[iwire]

In this state doing your own plumbing work is against the law. It has been that way for decades.

It is also almost universally ignored, go into any big box store and watch the plumbing supplies being sold.

So IMO having a law that is ignored does more harm than good.