Non-grounded wiring and GFCIs

[Sparky555]

Would someone be so kind as to point out NEC chapter and verse regarding the requirement to add GFCIs to wiring without a ground (if not rewiring)?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Would someone be so kind as to point out NEC chapter and verse regarding the requirement to add GFCIs to wiring without a ground (if not rewiring)?

If you are not making wiring or device changes, there is no rule that requires the addition of GFCI protection.

 

[Sparky555]

There is a device change.

 

[raider1]

I will agree with Don, but add that the GFCI requirement that you are asking about is for replacement of non-grounding type receptacles with grounding type receptacles.

Here is what the code says in section 406.4(D)(2);

(b) A non?grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted
to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interruptertype
of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked
?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding conductor
shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuitinterrupter-
type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the
ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.
(c) A non?grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted
to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s)
where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the groundfault
circuit interrupter shall be marked ?GFCI Protected?
and ?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding
conductor shall not be connected between the groundingtype
receptacles.

Chris

 

[charlie b]

And please allow me to point out that the text that Chris quoted is written in the context of "it shall be permitted." That means you don't have to do it any particular one way; you have choices.

 

[Sparky555]

Thank you. That is the text I was looking for. Now that I read it though it seems not to apply to the following situation:

Exterior outlets are wired with an open ground and GFCIs have been installed on this open-ground wiring.

It is my understanding that GFCIs do not need grounding to provide protection from electrocution. Is there any documentation to support that this is safe and does not need to be rewired?

 

[480sparky]

..................It is my understanding that GFCIs do not need grounding to provide protection from electrocution....

Correct.

.....Is there any documentation to support that this is safe and does not need to be rewired?

If it was 'unsafe, I doubt the NEC would allow it.

 

[infinity]

I always love old ungrounded outdoor GFCI's with a metal flip cover. Kneel on the damp ground, hold the cover open, insert one of these and press the test button. :jawdrop:

 

[jumper]

Would someone be so kind as to point out NEC chapter and verse regarding the requirement to add GFCIs to wiring without a ground (if not rewiring)?

One thing to note is that if replacing a receptacle in an area that currently requires GFCI protection, protection must be provided whether a grounding conductor is present or not.

2011 NEC

406.4(D)(3) Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupters. Ground-fault
circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided
where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are
required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

 

[jumper]

I always love old ungrounded outdoor GFCI's with a metal flip cover. Kneel on the damp ground, hold the cover open, insert one of these and press the test button. :jawdrop:

I generally like experimenting, but I is thinking that is gonna get me zapped.

 

[dhalleron]

I always love old ungrounded outdoor GFCI's with a metal flip cover. Kneel on the damp ground, hold the cover open, insert one of these and press the test button. :jawdrop:

Been on that ride before.

 

[Sparky555]

In a better read 406.0(D)(3) does seem to apply..."Where attachment to an EGC does not exist..."

Thanks guys.

 

[K8MHZ]

I always love old ungrounded outdoor GFCI's with a metal flip cover. Kneel on the damp ground, hold the cover open, insert one of these and press the test button. :jawdrop:

I'll bet you won't ignore the light pattern indicating no ground again!

 

[480sparky]

I always love old ungrounded outdoor GFCI's with a metal flip cover. Kneel on the damp ground, hold the cover open, insert one of these and press the test button. :jawdrop:

Perhaps we should have the NEC outlaw receps near water, outlaw metal boxes & covers, outlaw plug-in testers and outlaw electricity. :lol:

 

[K8MHZ]

Perhaps we should have the NEC outlaw receps near water, outlaw metal boxes & covers, outlaw plug-in testers and outlaw electricity. :lol:

Almost there, with what we pay for copper being highway robbery and all....

 

[rcarroll]

One thing to note is that if replacing a receptacle in an area that currently requires GFCI protection, protection must be provided whether a grounding conductor is present or not.

2011 NEC

406.4(D)(3) Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupters. Ground-fault
circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided
where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are
required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

And, if under the '11 code, it has to be tamper resistant as well. 406.4(D)(5)

 

[George Stolz]

And, if under the '11 code, it has to be tamper resistant as well. 406.4(D)(5)

...if TR would otherwise be required. Your wish is my command.

 

[infinity]

And, if under the '11 code, it has to be tamper resistant as well. 406.4(D)(5)

And I'll throw in WR too. :happyyes: