Panel mounted sideways

[augie47]

I don't know what stupidity allows be to watch "Holmes on Holmes", but, I saw a show yesterday which, for the 3rd or 4th time, showed the E/C installing a new loadcenter sideways with breakers in violation of 240.81.
This always seems to be taking place in the Northeast.
Is it common practice to allow that anywhere that you know of ??

 

[jumper]

I think H on H is in Canada, legal there.

http://www.hgtv.com/mike-holmes/bio/index.html

 

[stickboy1375]

I don't know what stupidity allows be to watch "Holmes on Holmes", but, I saw a show yesterday which, for the 3rd or 4th time, showed the E/C installing a new loadcenter sideways with breakers in violation of 240.81.
This always seems to be taking place in the Northeast.
Is it common practice to allow that anywhere that you know of ??

as mentioned, legal in Canada....

 

[iwire]

Legal and with Canada's restrictions on branch circuits and service conductors occupying the same area of the panel it is a reasonable solution.

You turn the panel on it's side, bring the SECs in one end and all the branch circuits in 'side' which is now the top.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

Mike Holmes was voted the 2nd most trustworthy person in Canada... For the first few seasons the show was filmed primarily in the Greater Toronto Area.

Back in 2002-2003 before the show really took off in popularity, I had the opportunity to meet Mike in person at a home show in Vancouver.

 

[stickboy1375]

Mike Holmes was voted the 2nd most trustworthy person in Canada...

Who's the 1st?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Legal and with Canada's restrictions on branch circuits and service conductors occupying the same area of the panel it is a reasonable solution.

You turn the panel on it's side, bring the SECs in one end and all the branch circuits in 'side' which is now the top.

We might have to do something like that here if the CMP would ever accept my line side barrier proposals. Maybe the breaker manufactuers would make two breakers with the operation of the handle opposite so you could always install a breaker so it was on with the handle in the up position.

 

[stickboy1375]

We might have to do something like that here if the CMP would ever accept my line side barrier proposals.

Any data on it being a real issue?

 

[augie47]

Legal and with Canada's restrictions on branch circuits and service conductors occupying the same area of the panel it is a reasonable solution.

You turn the panel on it's side, bring the SECs in one end and all the branch circuits in 'side' which is now the top.

Makes sense as that was one of the issues in the last show I saw.

We might have to do something like that here if the CMP would ever accept my line side barrier proposals. Maybe the breaker manufactuers would make two breakers with the operation of the handle opposite so you could always install a breaker so it was on with the handle in the up position.

What have you proposed ? A barrier for service conductors ? If so, that's a great proposal.

 

[stickboy1375]

What have you proposed ? A barrier for service conductors ? If so, that's a great proposal.

Be a real pain in the ass too...

 

[iwire]

Be a real pain in the ass too...

I don't think so as long as you rough knowing that.

For flush panels make the branch circuits enter the bottom.

For surface mount bring the branch circuits in the sides.

 

[norcal]

I would not like to see Canukistani style panels here but some guarding/ insulators over the line lugs would be nice, the best of both worlds IMHO.

 

[iwire]

I would not like to see Canukistani style panels here but some guarding/ insulators over the line lugs would be nice, the best of both worlds IMHO.

I can't see any reason why not.

And the up side is it would allow electricians to work on service panels without violating OSHA and / or 70E rules.

Now if you agree with OSHA or 70E is really not the issue, you can get large fines for non-compliance.

 

[kwired]

I don't think so as long as you rough knowing that.

For flush panels make the branch circuits enter the bottom.

For surface mount bring the branch circuits in the sides.

New construction is easier to deal with - retrofitting something existing is where most of the pain will be.

 

[iwire]

New construction is easier to deal with - retrofitting something existing is where most of the pain will be.

You think?

 

[masterinbama]

Mike Holmes was voted the 2nd most trustworthy person in Canada... For the first few seasons the show was filmed primarily in the Greater Toronto Area.

Back in 2002-2003 before the show really took off in popularity, I had the opportunity to meet Mike in person at a home show in Vancouver.

Who's the 1st?

Rampage_Rick, of course.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Any data on it being a real issue?

The issue is that there is no legal way to work in the panel if it has the service disconnect in that panel, unless you have the utility kill the power on the line side of the service disconnect.

 

[stickboy1375]

The issue is that there is no legal way to work in the panel if it has the service disconnect in that panel, unless you have the utility kill the power on the line side of the service disconnect.

And yet the power company allows me to do a cut and reconnect... :roll: I would like to know how that is allowed legally.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

And yet the power company allows me to do a cut and reconnect... :roll: I would like to know how that is allowed legally.

Its not.

 

[stickboy1375]

Its not.

I agree, yet its done.. but I want to know why it is allowed... because nobody has an issue with it. Let me restate what i really want to know... In a lawsuit, where would the blame lie if an accident occurred while doing a cut and reconnect?