Gate Power with 1700 Foot Driveway

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Mr. Spinosa

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Tacoma, Washington, USA
Hi,
We have a customer who has a gate that is 1700 feet away from her house. We need 20A at the gate. What is the best way to accomplish this? I think there is a conduit from the house to the gate already installed. The local authority having jurisdiction will not let us place a separate service, other than 200A, at the gate.
 
Mr. Spinosa said:
Hi,
We have a customer who has a gate that is 1700 feet away from her house. We need 20A at the gate. What is the best way to accomplish this? I think there is a conduit from the house to the gate already installed. The local authority having jurisdiction will not let us place a separate service, other than 200A, at the gate.
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AHJ wont allow anything but 200 amp or POCO will not supply anything but 200 amp?

We have POCO here that will pull conductors for service laterals but owner is responsible for installing raceway. They only pull minimum 4/0 aluminum conductors, so you need 200 amp meter socket and 2 inch raceway even if you are only going to supply 60 amp service.

Most gate controllers AFAIK are only 12 VDC. Can you install battery supply and solar source for recharging? - Just an idea.
 
I think this is one of those rare cases where solar is just the ticket. There are packaged systems available for this kind of application. I've some in rural installations around here. It's the perfect kind of load for this as it is very intermittent.
 
I think you have one of two choices.

1. Solar Power

2. Utilize hamster power at the gate. Provide 12" diameter hamster wheel as close to the gate as possible. Install a bell to wake the hamster up when a car pulls in.
 
Mr. Spinosa said:
Hi,
We have a customer who has a gate that is 1700 feet away from her house. We need 20A at the gate. What is the best way to accomplish this? I think there is a conduit from the house to the gate already installed. The local authority having jurisdiction will not let us place a separate service, other than 200A, at the gate.
Click to expand...

1700 foot driveway, gated entry....I think the customer could afford the service installation;)
 
texie said:
I think this is one of those rare cases where solar is just the ticket. There are packaged systems available for this kind of application. I've some in rural installations around here. It's the perfect kind of load for this as it is very intermittent.
Click to expand...

Over time, someone with that type of home, is not going to want the constant replacement headache of batteries that are left outside in the weather extremes. Batteries fail every 3 years and they can't get in = bad installation in their eyes.
 
kwired said:
Most gate controllers AFAIK are only 12 VDC. Can you install battery supply and solar source for recharging? - Just an idea.
Click to expand...
Or a conventional trickle charger from the house?
That wouldn't then require a 20 A supply to be run the 1700 feet.
 
what is in the conduit that is already there?

why do you need 20A? most gate motors are pretty small.

kick it up to 600V at the house and back down to 120V out at the gate. transformers are a lot cheaper than 3400 feet of wire.
 
I think you need to better define the requirements. The gates with which I'm familiar need less than 0.2A to the smart charger for the DC powered motors.

Perhaps they want to run lights ... or plug in a tool ... or run a pump ... but you need to know. If the load is ALWAYS 20A or zero, an appropriate transformer pair will likely work ... 240:480 at the house, use #12 and live with the approx 30V loss, 450:120 at the gate.

Next they are going to want to control the gates, security camera, lights, and intercom ...

You GOTTA have facts.
 
Battery power gate controller (in case power goes out) with a trickle charger. Run a #8 to the gate in the conduit previously installed. Maybe run a light or two also at the gate...
 
My thinking follows A/A, Ron, George B. Figure out the customers' wants - not their needs. I'm guessing anyone with a 1/4 mile driveway can afford what they want. But maybe not - perhaps shaving a few bucks matters to them. Just have to be careful on how you ask. Just the way the questions are phrased can push them one way or another.

If I had to guess, they will want the most cost effective system that is close to zero maintenance and utterly reliable. I'd be looking at that conduit and if not available then the service. Anything else is more maintenance and less reliability.

ice
 
System is still giving me intermittent fits of editing. (grimace)

I didn't see Hv's post. If the power is not particularly reliable, they may want a battery back up. But if it is reliable, they may wish to forgo the extra maintenance and use the mechanical disconnect for the few times the power is out. If they let the backup maintenance go and the first tme the power is out is three years later and bats are no good - the backup didn't help much.

ice
 
With 2 AL and a 10 amp load at 240 VAC I come up with less than 5% drop and I doubt the load would be that high. Place a small transformer to get the 120 volts and it's done.

We can think it to death or just get out an do it. Honestly 1700' is not that far, consider the parking lot lighting at your local shopping plaza.
 
If you run power to this area they will want lighting, and receptacles too.

Down the road they will add some structure that needs power and figure there is power at the gate and it is not too far away next thing you know the feeder you installed is not large enough. If POCO can put in service easily it is worth consideration. Around here montly charge for service would be around $18 even if no power was used. More expensive than replacing batteries every three years but if they want it to be more service free..

These things are going to require more service than just changing batteries at times so that may not be as big of an issue as some might think.
 
petersonra said:
kick it up to 600V at the house and back down to 120V out at the gate. transformers are a lot cheaper than 3400 feet of wire.
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That's what I was thinking too.

It's done all the time around here along the railway lines. There's a campground I stay at every summer which has a hiking trail along Canadian Pacific tracks. There are 3 road crossings relatively close together, and I've looked at the layout. There's a 200A meter base at the middle crossing which feeds 120/240 into the cabinet for that crossing plus a pair of 600V xfmrs. At each of the far crossings it's stepped back down to 120/240 (they use the same model xfmr on each end)
 
iwire said:
With 2 AL and a 10 amp load at 240 VAC I come up with less than 5% drop and I doubt the load would be that high. Place a small transformer to get the 120 volts and it's done. Honestly 1700' is not that far, consider the parking lot lighting at your local shopping plaza.
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Good point, and I agree.
We can think it to death or just get out an do it.
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You have had some time to think. Is there anything else you might want to add?:roll::D
 
120606-1133 EDT

Mr. Spinosa:

It is really important to know what the actual present load, and future possible loads are expected at the gate. There is possibly a big difference between peak power needed and average power over a day.

I could possibly supply a 50% continuous load at that distance (120 * 20 = 2400 W) with a 240 V source at the input end and #14 copper wire assuming a 50% duty cycle. The voltage drop would be about 100 V at 10 A. Thus, available power at the destination on a continuous basis is 140 * 10 = `1400 W. This is 33.6 KWH per day at the gate. (I run my whole house on 30 to 40 KWH per day.) At a 50% duty cycle and a 2400 W load 28.8 KWH per day are required.

To accomplish this goal requires some energy storage and an electronic converter at the destination. My point is not so much to suggest that you do this, but to point out a different perspective. You really need to look at what are the real load requirements at the gate.

Also note that super capacitors may be a better energy storage device than a regular battery.

.
 
gar said:
120606-1133 EDT

Mr. Spinosa:

It is really important to know what the actual present load, and future possible loads are expected at the gate. There is possibly a big difference between peak power needed and average power over a day.

......

Also note that super capacitors may be a better energy storage device than a regular battery.

.
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I echo the first part. I'd look at a 13.8VDC operator with a local deep cycle battery. You can run one conductor out & have the charger at the house. Put a diode at the battery. Use a ground return.

"Wait!" you say.... "Voltage Drop..."

But that implies current.

Working backwards... End-state; the battery is fully charged and draws no current from the charger. Before then, yes there is drop, but you're putting some coulombs into the battery. Patience, Grasshopper.

You do need a way to up the charge voltage to make up for the fixed diode drop.

Now, iffen I were building it, I might use a 48V->13.8v converter, or even just a series regulator at the battery.

As for capacitor storage.....I've not looked at such in years and yield to gar.
 
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