Labor units for demolition or practical experience

[clintok1992]

Hello to all,Ive worked in the electrical Industry for 20 years (union,industrial,commercial)and as of August 2011 have an electrical contracting company.
Never had a problem keeping a job, new what was needed of me just getting older and thought starting a business was the way to go. Ive had little success so far , Ive bid 11 jobs in the past two months and I know Ive had good numbers on half or better,When you hear from the GC say,"Who else did you give this number to",and you still dont get the job, Its pretty discouraging.
Any way Ive been using MCCormicks software for about a year and feeling pretty good about it but recently have a job that is mostly demo of 50k sq ft bldg and a bit of new service work .Ive been plugging in .5 hr per device or fixture for demo for tennant fisnish type work , this was suggested by a colleague to cover device,conduit,wire etc, the same for fixures.I have thought my demo number could be too high after receiving feedback from GC after bids but not enough experience yet to know for sure.
The latest job is is 4 floors at 12k sq ft per floor and im trying to decide on how to figure the demo.The building is old plaste covered brick walls with drop ceilings and then a basement with open pipe runs and electrical room that gets completely demoed.
The GC will demo interior walls which i Will scope out to make safe and let them clean up , but what about the rest? any ideas would be greatly appreciated.Ive also figure a per sqft/hr based on common installations found in the bldg , but the number seems high.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Welcome to the forum. I would be reluctant to take numbers from others who don't live in your area but I understand the frustration. Jobs are getting to the point where you have to work just to make wages-- times are tough and I hope someone can offer some better advice then I can.

 

[bbaumer]

I used to be an electrical estimator.

My mentor told me the following on electrical demo:

Easy: 100 SF / hr
Medium: 75 SF / hr
Hard: 50 SF / hr.

I never did a study on it but gravitated more towards the 75 SF / hr number and don't recall ever losing my shirt on a job due to not having enough hours estimated for demo.

 

[clintok1992]

Bbaumer, Ive ran these nmbers , these are more where my gut tells me I need to be, thanks for the response , time will tell.

 

[satcom]

I used to be an electrical estimator.

My mentor told me the following on electrical demo:

Easy: 100 SF / hr
Medium: 75 SF / hr
Hard: 50 SF / hr.

I never did a study on it but gravitated more towards the 75 SF / hr number and don't recall ever losing my shirt on a job due to not having enough hours estimated for demo.

The problem with a square foot number is it may or may not include the correct job conditions, or cost of staging and sorting material, for removal from the site.

 

[cdslotz]

Most demo jobs I have bid, the GC wants us to make safe for removal by them or their demo sub.
Demo subs bid with intent to recycle materials and get salvage value. So they take everything. Copper, steel, aluminum, concrete, etc.
Sometimes the GC has a scheduled time frame to do his demo. I find out what that is, say 2 weeks. I figure out how many electricians, lifts, etc would be needed to be there for that time frame. So if 2 electricians would suffice that would be 160 m/h. Then I add if I'm not comfortable. I also qualify to the GC exactly what I have included based on his schedule.

For selective demo, a good sq/ft number I use to compare is .10 m/h per sq/ft so 4 floors @ 12K sq/ft is 480 m/h. That would be where I start depending on type of building.

 

[cdslotz]

Oh, the problem with bidding jobs with demo to multiple GC's is they all may have different ways they will handle demo.
Always discuss with each GC how they are going to do their demo.
And qualify....qualify...qualify

 

[clintok1992]

cdslotz, I think you meant.010, this math gives you 480 hrs for 48k sqft, its the same if you figure a man can demo 100 sq ft in one hour as stated in the above post, these are both half of what ive been figuring and I feel will work better on a job thats primarily demo, ive been pricing my demo too high,ive been close on the jobs with no demo but too high to get the job on jobs with demo, i know this is not an exact science but if it works , it works. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[bbaumer]

The problem with a square foot number is it may or may not include the correct job conditions, or cost of staging and sorting material, for removal from the site.

That's true for about anything.

Incidentally, back in the day when I was estimating full time I kept track of a lot of numbers and started developing statistics like #12 per 3/4 EMT, 3/4 EMT per outlet box, #12 / receptacle, #12 / light fixture, 3/4 per light fixture etc. These were on relatively large commercial and education projects. Typically $500,000 to $2,000,000 electrically.

I did this in an effort to find a quicker way to take-off branch circuiting rather than rolling off every foot of pipe, laying out j-boxes, etc.

The ultimate goal was to count the lights, switches and receptacles, crunch a couple formulas and output how much 3/4, boxes, connectors, couplings, supports, #12, terms, etc. were needed on the job. A far quicker method than actually rolling it all off. A guy could count all the lights switches and recepts on say a 200,000 square foot new school job in a day or so and have his branch take-off done except for the "special" stuff, whereas doing a take-off on that would take several days.

I never had the guts to actually bid a job doing this due to the risks involved before I moved on to engineering full time but I can say I was getting very close to having the confidence to do so.

It was amazing how close these numbers were coming out, especially on similar work and particularly close on jobs designed by the same engineering firm.

I don't remember now the numbers but it would be something like an average of 13.6 feet of 3/4 per receptacle and 4.3 #12's per foot of 3/4 and the like.

 

[electrimate]

I usually start with 1/2 the labor for installation. That is for devices, panels, lights, etc. The conduit and wire goes a lot quicker.
As with any bid, after taking off everything and then evaluate the man hours totalled and decide if I have put enough into the bid for the demo.