XOKO
Member
- Location
- Rocky Point, NY
An electrician told me that only 3 wires are now permitted when wiring a DR - P, N & G. If true, what is the code section that states this?
How many wires are permitted on a standard duplex receptacle?
- Thread starter XOKO
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I am not sure what you are asking. A receptacle can hold power in and power out and if it is a 15 amp circuit wires could be installed in the spring clips in the back. Unless the manufacturer says differently I know of no such code.
BTW- welcome to the forum
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Your information is incorrect. The neutral conductor of a MWBC cannot rely on the device for continuity but you could use all 5 screws on a standard two wire with EGC circuit. Curious as to why you said P, N and G? Positive, negative and ground?
Welcome to the Forum.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
He is correct. 110.3(B). A single can only have 3.
3 on a duplex 1-g, 1 (pair) N, 1 (pair) P.
Now if you are 'looping' wires all the rules change!:angel:
xformer
Senior Member
- Location
- Dallas, Tx
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
are you saying that split DRs are not allowed?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
That would depend on the design of the receptacle. Some back wired singles have space for two grounded conductors and two ungrounded conductors.
The following is from the spec sheet for a P&S 8301-I
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
... Curious as to why you said P, N and G? Positive, negative and ground?
Welcome to the Forum.
I figured P = Power; N = Neutral; G = Ground
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Agreed if there are three cables. When just 2 cables I use the device.
XOKO
Member
- Location
- Rocky Point, NY
wires on a std duplex.
wires on a std duplex.
I occassionally go back to work to help out a friend (Licensed). While he saw me wiring a std duplex receptacle w/ NM in and out, he said that since the 2008 code was adopted (NY) you can only put 1 black (P), 1 white (N) and 1 green (G) on the device and that in the future he wanted pigtails. Doesn't make sense when manufacturers still produce screws and backwire connections. Maybe he just meant the white wire only so as not to break the neutral in the downstream circuit if changing the device. Just wanted to ask for some opinions before I challenge the wisdom of the guy who signs my checks.
wires on a std duplex.
I occassionally go back to work to help out a friend (Licensed). While he saw me wiring a std duplex receptacle w/ NM in and out, he said that since the 2008 code was adopted (NY) you can only put 1 black (P), 1 white (N) and 1 green (G) on the device and that in the future he wanted pigtails. Doesn't make sense when manufacturers still produce screws and backwire connections. Maybe he just meant the white wire only so as not to break the neutral in the downstream circuit if changing the device. Just wanted to ask for some opinions before I challenge the wisdom of the guy who signs my checks.
The P&S 8301-I is a single receptacle. I thought we were discussing duplex receptacles (DR)...???
Regardless, some duplex have 8 backwire holes: 2 per terminal screw; 4L + 4N.
http://tools.passandseymour.com/ProductKnowledge/course.cfm?course_sak=19&cur_seq=2&cur_page=4
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
You mean you can't put one wire in each of the holes on the back and another one wrapped around the screw?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
This is not true. One green is true because there is one screw but there are 4 connection for a 14 gauge wire and 2 connections for a 12 gauge. Now you cannot split the neutral on a MWBC but that has been around for a long time. The 2008 code change was that a MWBC needed handle ties or a dp breaker
I see :slaphead:
I don't think the screws are long enough to allow two in the holes and one wrapped.You mean you can't put one wire in each of the holes on the back and another one wrapped around the screw?
However, they may be long enough for two in the holes and a crimp-on spade terminal under the screw head.
hmy::thumbsdown:
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Anyone else think we might be taking things a bit far, looking too close into things? Next thing you know, someone will ask if different brands of wire nuts can be used in the same box!
Many receptacles have a total of eight 'push-in' ports, plus four screws, plus the ground screw.. That makes it possible to directly attach 13 wires to the device.
But are you allowed to?
Each and every connection point is examined by UL for things like pull-out stregth and wire capacity. Every device is tested as a complete device, wired in the 'ordinary' way. And, yet ...
When asked, UL accurately replied that they've never evaluated any device for use with more than one set of wires. By thier reasoning, they 'just don't know' if it's OK to connect more than three wires to a receptacle - the long-standing practice of split receptacles notwithstanding.
Frankly, I expect they never saw a need. Apart from the obvious 'why on earth would anyone want to hook up 13 wires?' question, there's the simple fact that every termination point is independent of the others. There's also the riddle of how to treat the 'looped' wire.
Just to illustrate the point .... the other day I was mounting two devices (total of four receptacles) in a box. The number of different ways you can wire them is nearly infinite. I think it's unreasonable to expect the code, UL, or anyone else to address every possibility - and just as outrageous for someone to attempt to legislate a single 'correct' way.
Along the same lines, and relevant to those of you who like stranded wire... UL has also never evaluated devices together with those little crimp connectors (forks or rings). UL has gone a bit further, and asserted that the devices are not listed for use this way- but the devices do have their screw terminals and screw-down pressure plates evaluated for use with stranded wire. To be fair to UL, I have not yet seen a crimp connector that naturally fit under the screws; some modification or extreme deformation seems necessary.
Many receptacles have a total of eight 'push-in' ports, plus four screws, plus the ground screw.. That makes it possible to directly attach 13 wires to the device.
But are you allowed to?
Each and every connection point is examined by UL for things like pull-out stregth and wire capacity. Every device is tested as a complete device, wired in the 'ordinary' way. And, yet ...
When asked, UL accurately replied that they've never evaluated any device for use with more than one set of wires. By thier reasoning, they 'just don't know' if it's OK to connect more than three wires to a receptacle - the long-standing practice of split receptacles notwithstanding.
Frankly, I expect they never saw a need. Apart from the obvious 'why on earth would anyone want to hook up 13 wires?' question, there's the simple fact that every termination point is independent of the others. There's also the riddle of how to treat the 'looped' wire.
Just to illustrate the point .... the other day I was mounting two devices (total of four receptacles) in a box. The number of different ways you can wire them is nearly infinite. I think it's unreasonable to expect the code, UL, or anyone else to address every possibility - and just as outrageous for someone to attempt to legislate a single 'correct' way.
Along the same lines, and relevant to those of you who like stranded wire... UL has also never evaluated devices together with those little crimp connectors (forks or rings). UL has gone a bit further, and asserted that the devices are not listed for use this way- but the devices do have their screw terminals and screw-down pressure plates evaluated for use with stranded wire. To be fair to UL, I have not yet seen a crimp connector that naturally fit under the screws; some modification or extreme deformation seems necessary.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Then why does the UL Guide Information for Receptacles for Plugs and Attachment Plugs (RTRT) say this:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Not all device have the push in termination in the back however most residential ones do. You cannot insert #12 wire in the back of these devices. Now, the commercial grade receptacles that have the pressure plate will allow two wires under the plate however the other style where you wrap the wire can only have one per screw.
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