3 phase vs 1 phase

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rschutz

New member
Location
addison, texas
my company is having us give a 30 min class on this topic. my question iswhen comparing single phase ve 3 phase power, can someone explain the differing calculation for watts and include the voltage influence on watts (i.e. 208 vs 240).

any help is appreciated
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
Watts are watts whether 1 phase or 3 phase. Major difference is the amperage drawn by the motor is larger with a single phase motor and thus the need for larger conductor.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
my company is having us give a 30 min class on this topic. my question iswhen comparing single phase ve 3 phase power, can someone explain the differing calculation for watts and include the voltage influence on watts (i.e. 208 vs 240).

any help is appreciated
1? W=VApf(eff*)
3? W=(√3)VApf(eff*)

pf — power factor
eff — efficiency
*for motors or anything else which has losses not included in the power rating; otherwise not included.
 
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spark master

Senior Member
Location
cyberspace
1? W=VApf(eff*)
3? W=(√3)VApf(eff*)
pf ? power factor
eff ? efficiency
*for motors or anything else which has losses not included in the power rating; otherwise not included.

can you be more specific with the Amps on 3 phase... please.
is it the total amps of 3 phases, or just the measurement off of 1 phase ??
 

broadgage

Senior Member
Location
London, England
Except in very small sizes, 3 phase motors are generally cheaper, more efficient, more reliable, and over a few horsepower more readily available than single phase motors.
In premises with a lot of machinery, that alone is a good reason to obtain 3 phase service.

In the case of large premises, internal feeders within a building will be cheaper in materials for 3 phase than for single phase, for a given KW loading.

In most places, over a certain load, the utility will normally only offer three phase service.
The limit for single phase service varies, but there definatly is a limit.
Three phase is effectively unlimited.

The cost per KWH is normally about the same. Tarrifs vary from utility to another, but the cost per KWH is normally the same.
In the UK, if a customer has only a small load, but still requires 3 phase, then a small surchage may apply.

In the US, 3 phase for smaller premises is often 208/120, this system has its merits, but there is also a drawback as regards heating and cooking appliances, most such are primarily designed for 240 volt service and will give reduced output or performance on 208 volts.
A hot water tank will take longer to heat the water for example. (the cost of heating the water will be virtually the same)
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
can you be more specific with the Amps on 3 phase... please.
is it the total amps of 3 phases, or just the measurement off of 1 phase ??
That would be the amperes of just one phase (more correctly, one Line conductor) of a balanced 3? load. An unbalanced load, where line current values are non-zero and differ, requires complex math.

I have to ask why you are getting into calculating watts? 99.5% (perhaps an exaggeration :angel:) of electrical construction uses VA.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
my company is having us give a 30 min class on this topic. my question iswhen comparing single phase ve 3 phase power, can someone explain the differing calculation for watts and include the voltage influence on watts (i.e. 208 vs 240).

any help is appreciated

Make sure your calculator can do the square root of three. You'll use it a lot. :D
 
Single phase calculations

Single phase calculations

What difference if any is involved with the calculation of single phase power ( 2 ungrounded conductors / 1 neutral ) and ( 1 ungrounded conductor / 1 neutral)?
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
What difference if any is involved with the calculation of single phase power ( 2 ungrounded conductors / 1 neutral ) and ( 1 ungrounded conductor / 1 neutral)?
Depends on load voltage. With 2 ungrounded / 1 neutral, you may have e.g. 120V and 240V loads. With 1 ungrounded / 1 neutral, you can only have e.g. 120V loads. In all cases, [apparent] power is Volts times Amperes. However, with 2 ungrounded / 1 neutral, the "half-voltage" loads are apportioned to the Lines to which they are connected.
 
WOW

WOW

I wish to know why 1.414 is listed on some of Mikes documentation? I personally never used this number in any type of calculation.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I wish to know why 1.414 is listed on some of Mikes documentation? I personally never used this number in any type of calculation.
1.414 ≈ √2

The only use that I can think of, for √2 in calculations, is peak vs rms AC voltages and currents (pure sinusoidal waveforms).
 
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