Emergency egress lighting required for bleachers?

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jcbabb

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I have a project where we designed a new softball and football playing field for a high school. The state fire marshal mentioned in his plan review comments that "emergency egress lighting is required for all exit paths per the IBC paragraph 1006.3. This is for the new football bleachers and the softball bleachers."

I questioned his requirement for emergency lighting based on my reading of the code. In a clarification response, he further stated that "it is required by code for any path of egress to be illuminated for safe egress to the public way. This would include the steps going up the bleachers to the seating area as well as the ramps and sidewalks leading to the public way".

I don't see how the IBC 1006.3 requires emergency lighting for this type of installation. Am I just reading it incorrectly? I want to be code compliant, but at the same time I need to be budget conscious. There are over 1000' of sidewalks between the bleachers and the "public way". Providing emergency lighting for these paths would be a significant cost.

Have any of you encountered this requirement?

Thanks for your input!
 
jcbabb said:
I have a project where we designed a new softball and football playing field for a high school. The state fire marshal mentioned in his plan review comments that "emergency egress lighting is required for all exit paths per the IBC paragraph 1006.3. This is for the new football bleachers and the softball bleachers."

I questioned his requirement for emergency lighting based on my reading of the code. In a clarification response, he further stated that "it is required by code for any path of egress to be illuminated for safe egress to the public way. This would include the steps going up the bleachers to the seating area as well as the ramps and sidewalks leading to the public way".

I don't see how the IBC 1006.3 requires emergency lighting for this type of installation. Am I just reading it incorrectly? I want to be code compliant, but at the same time I need to be budget conscious. There are over 1000' of sidewalks between the bleachers and the "public way". Providing emergency lighting for these paths would be a significant cost.

Have any of you encountered this requirement?

Thanks for your input!
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Not sure of your code numbers. Here is some Ohio (ICC based) reading:

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/oh/st/b2v11/st_oh_st_b2v11_10_sec006.htm?bu=OH-P-2011-000004
 
I don't know what the code has to say on the subject, and I don't know one occupancy code from another (so the link did not help me understand). But as I see things, you should not need egress lights to lead you away from a set of bleachers. The whole idea of having an "emergency" power distribution system is that, if power were not available, someone might die. The whole idea of egress lights (one of a very few legitimately "emergency" loads in buildings other than hospitals) is to allow people to safely exit a building after the utility power supply is lost.

But if you are sitting in a bleacher seat, you are already outside! You can sit there until the lights come back on, or you can sit there until the dawn's early light shows you the way out. But you are not in danger if you just sit there. You might get bored, and you might miss dinner, but these things will not kill you.

Anyway, that is how I see it. I suspect that the building code authors saw it differently.
 
charlie b said:
I don't know what the code has to say on the subject, and I don't know one occupancy code from another (so the link did not help me understand). But as I see things, you should not need egress lights to lead you away from a set of bleachers. The whole idea of having an "emergency" power distribution system is that, if power were not available, someone might die. The whole idea of egress lights (one of a very few legitimately "emergency" loads in buildings other than hospitals) is to allow people to safely exit a building after the utility power supply is lost.

But if you are sitting in a bleacher seat, you are already outside! You can sit there until the lights come back on, or you can sit there until the dawn's early light shows you the way out. But you are not in danger if you just sit there. You might get bored, and you might miss dinner, but these things will not kill you.

Anyway, that is how I see it. I suspect that the building code authors saw it differently.
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Charlie,
FYI, here is the excerpt from the code:

1006.3 Illumination emergency power.
The power supply for means of egress illumination shall normally be provided by the premises? electrical supply.
In the event of power supply failure, an emergency electrical system shall automatically illuminate the following areas:
1. Aisles and unenclosed egress stairways in rooms and spaces that require two or more means of egress.
2. Corridors, exit enclosures and exit passageways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
3. Exterior egress components at other than the level of exit discharge until exit discharge is accomplished for buildings required to have two or more exits.
4. Interior exit discharge elements, as permitted in Section 1024.1, in buildings required to have two or more exits.
5. Exterior landings, as required by Section 1008.1.5, for exit discharge doorways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
The emergency power system shall provide power for a duration of not less than 90 minutes and shall consist of storage batteries, unit equipment or an on-site generator. The installation of the emergency power system shall be in accordance with Section 2702.

I can possibly see a requirement based on item number 1 if we consider bleachers to be a "room or space requiring two or more means of egress". Is that stretching it?
 
jcbabb said:
Charlie,
FYI, here is the excerpt from the code:

1006.3 Illumination emergency power.
The power supply for means of egress illumination shall normally be provided by the premises? electrical supply.
In the event of power supply failure, an emergency electrical system shall automatically illuminate the following areas:
1. Aisles and unenclosed egress stairways in rooms and spaces that require two or more means of egress.
2. Corridors, exit enclosures and exit passageways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
3. Exterior egress components at other than the level of exit discharge until exit discharge is accomplished for buildings required to have two or more exits.
4. Interior exit discharge elements, as permitted in Section 1024.1, in buildings required to have two or more exits.
5. Exterior landings, as required by Section 1008.1.5, for exit discharge doorways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
The emergency power system shall provide power for a duration of not less than 90 minutes and shall consist of storage batteries, unit equipment or an on-site generator. The installation of the emergency power system shall be in accordance with Section 2702.

I can possibly see a requirement based on item number 1 if we consider bleachers to be a "room or space requiring two or more means of egress". Is that stretching it?
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I think that it is a stretch but we call a pole a seperate structure!
 
charlie b said:
The whole idea of egress lights (one of a very few legitimately "emergency" loads in buildings other than hospitals) is to allow people to safely exit a building after the utility power supply is lost.

But if you are sitting in a bleacher seat, you are already outside!
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You have to deal with stairs and such to get safely away from the crowd and bleachers. Lets not forget there have been a number of high fatality bleacher fires in the past.

FWIW we have to provide emergency lighting on the upper open decks of parking structures, it is not enough to simple light the exits, we must light the path as well.
 
iwire said:
You have to deal with stairs and such to get safely away from the crowd and bleachers.
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That is the whole concept whether you are in a high rise building or a one level outdoor event. If people are gathered for any reason there needs to be a way (usually more than one way) to safely leave the area. If temporary illumination is going to help with this then it is typically required.

The next question is at what point have you safely egressed and the facility owner/operator is no longer required to provide any safety for you? If you are at a 100,000 seat stadium you likely have a pretty long walk to get to a point where you are not much of a part of people leaving that venue, and are likely no longer on ground controlled by the venue or its owners.
 
iwire said:
You have to deal with stairs and such to get safely away from the crowd and bleachers.
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My point is that they can be safe by simply staying where they are.
iwire said:
Lets not forget there have been a number of high fatality bleacher fires in the past.
Click to expand...
It is not feasible to design for all possible combinations of two bad things happening at the same time. Double failures are outside the design basis of any project I have ever encountered. In this instance, if "Bad Thing One: a Fire" takes place, then I don't have to assume that "Bad Thing Two: Loss of Normal Utility Power" takes place at the same time. Therefore, I can take credit for the normal lighting system as providing the illumination that can lead the people out of the danger area. On the other hand, if "Bad Thing One: Loss of Normal Utility Power" takes place, then I don't have to assume that "Bad Thing Two: a Fire" is going to take place at the same time.

Again, I don't know what the relevant building codes might have to say on this subject. And I don't think it would be a bad design to include egress lighting in the bleachers. I am simply pointing out that the purpose of egress lights is to help people get outside, and people sitting in a bleachers are already outside.
 
charlie b said:
My point is that they can be safe by simply staying where they are.
It is not feasible to design for all possible combinations of two bad things happening at the same time. Double failures are outside the design basis of any project I have ever encountered. In this instance, if "Bad Thing One: a Fire" takes place, then I don't have to assume that "Bad Thing Two: Loss of Normal Utility Power" takes place at the same time. Therefore, I can take credit for the normal lighting system as providing the illumination that can lead the people out of the danger area. On the other hand, if "Bad Thing One: Loss of Normal Utility Power" takes place, then I don't have to assume that "Bad Thing Two: a Fire" is going to take place at the same time.

Again, I don't know what the relevant building codes might have to say on this subject. And I don't think it would be a bad design to include egress lighting in the bleachers. I am simply pointing out that the purpose of egress lights is to help people get outside, and people sitting in a bleachers are already outside.
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But if utility power is lost and everyone is in the dark, sooner or later someone will start a fire for light, warmth, or whatever:happyyes: It is easy for a crowd to get out of hand, most of the people in that crowd wouldn't do things they do if they were alone, or in a much smaller group.
 
jcbabb said:
Charlie,
FYI, here is the excerpt from the code:

1006.3 Illumination emergency power.
The power supply for means of egress illumination shall normally be provided by the premises? electrical supply.
In the event of power supply failure, an emergency electrical system shall automatically illuminate the following areas:
1. Aisles and unenclosed egress stairways in rooms and spaces that require two or more means of egress.
2. Corridors, exit enclosures and exit passageways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
3. Exterior egress components at other than the level of exit discharge until exit discharge is accomplished for buildings required to have two or more exits.
4. Interior exit discharge elements, as permitted in Section 1024.1, in buildings required to have two or more exits.
5. Exterior landings, as required by Section 1008.1.5, for exit discharge doorways in buildings required to have two or more exits.
The emergency power system shall provide power for a duration of not less than 90 minutes and shall consist of storage batteries, unit equipment or an on-site generator. The installation of the emergency power system shall be in accordance with Section 2702.

I can possibly see a requirement based on item number 1 if we consider bleachers to be a "room or space requiring two or more means of egress". Is that stretching it?
Click to expand...

You guys present a lot of useful and relevant information. What gets me is that these softball bleachers are an aluminum structure about 30' wide, and 4 steps high. There is no sidewalk, and no clear path to any "public way". It is simply in a field about a hundred feet from the nearest public roadway. I could probably light the steps with some sort of battery powered LED's mounted to the bleachers themselves easily enough. What about getting the occupants away from the marshmallow/weenie roast and safely to the "public way"?

I guess where I am hung up is on the question of whether or not the IBC excerpt I quoted requires emergency egress lighting for this application? Is it solely at the discretion of the AHJ who claims that it is required? Regardless of the answer, I will be including it in all future designs.

Thanks again for the input and discussion.
 
I have never seen emergency illumination for an outdoor venue such as that, but have heard of fires, usually a transformer or gear failure which would cause loss of illumination, so there is some logic behind having emergency illumination. The problem would be a design issue, were and how would you sufficently light an outdoor that usually expansive, battery back up would be prohibitivly expensive, generator powered would have to utilize a great amount of incandescent, floresent or LED fixtures.
 
hillbilly1 said:
I have never seen emergency illumination for an outdoor venue such as that, but have heard of fires, usually a transformer or gear failure which would cause loss of illumination, so there is some logic behind having emergency illumination. The problem would be a design issue, were and how would you sufficently light an outdoor that usually expansive, battery back up would be prohibitivly expensive, generator powered would have to utilize a great amount of incandescent, floresent or LED fixtures.
Click to expand...

I never have seen emergency illumination for something like that either. Fire marshal wanting designated clear passage ways, means to exit the venue in an emergency besides the main gate where people generally enter - yes. Once they are out they still have no illumination.

What about large staduims. I have not done any wiring in them but being an electrician I always look over those kinds of things pretty much everywhere I go. I'm sure the tunnels, and below the stands passageways are treated like any other indoor public venue but once inside the outdoor arena (if that makes sense) do they have to provide emergency egress illumination? If the venue is not used after dark - probably not at all but that practice is about gone with big sports venues and television dollars wanting prime time events.
 
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