Arc Fault Breakers -required?

[dnbob]

I am pricing a panel and meter replacement on an older apartment building. All of the wiring is in Flexible metal cable with metal boxes. Someone else replaced 4 panels in an adjacent building,(under 2011 code) and did not install arc fault breakers. 210.12 exceptions(2011)doesn't appear to recognize flex, and also states to install an AFI at the first receptacle, which I do not believe they did either. I have not been able to get in touch with the inspector that approved it, but was wondering if i am missing something?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If no additions to the circuit are being made then no afci is required

 

[dnbob]

The branch circuits will be extended approx. 6', as the existing panel is mounted behind the dryer, and will be moved around a corner for NEC clearance.

 

[raider1]

If you are relocating the panels and extending the branch circuits then 210.12(B) would require AFCI protection for the circuits mentioned in 210.12(A).

Chris

 

[John120/240]

If you are relocating the panels and extending the branch circuits then 210.12(B) would require AFCI protection for the circuits mentioned in 210.12(A).

Chris

For example say the original wiring method was MWBC 14-3 NM to bedrooms. With shared

neutrals what is the solution ? Depending on panel manfacturer AFCI breakers will not work

with shared neutrals.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The branch circuits will be extended approx. 6', as the existing panel is mounted behind the dryer, and will be moved around a corner for NEC clearance.

Wait! Ask your AHJ about leaving the panel there. I see no problem on an existing installation with it being 'behind' a MOVABLE dryer.

 

[jxofaltrds]

If you are relocating the panels and extending the branch circuits then 210.12(B) would require AFCI protection for the circuits mentioned in 210.12(A).

Chris

If he moves the panel and it goes to a junction box in the laundry why does he have to AFCI anything?
If I move a panel 1' in a basement would AFCIs be required?

NO.

(B) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications ? Dwelling
Units. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), where
branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended, the
branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:
(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of
the branch circuit
(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the
first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit

 

[fmtjfw]

For example say the original wiring method was MWBC 14-3 NM to bedrooms. With shared

neutrals what is the solution ? Depending on panel manfacturer AFCI breakers will not work

with shared neutrals.

use 2 pole AFCI breakers. Commercially available: Home Depot or your favorite equivalent. Your supply house should be able to get them for you. Murray, Siemens, GE, Eaton ...

 

[John120/240]

use 2 pole AFCI breakers. Commercially available: Home Depot or your favorite equivalent. Your supply house should be able to get them for you. Murray, Siemens, GE, Eaton ...

For example say the original wiring method was MWBC 14-3 NM to bedrooms. With shared

neutrals what is the solution ? Depending on panel manfacturer AFCI breakers will not work

with shared neutrals.

Use 2 pole AFCI breakers, but do they work with a shared neutral ? SQ D QO did not work

last time I tried.

 

[north star]

& & & &

"Wait! Ask your AHJ about leaving the panel there......I see no problem on an existing
installation with it being 'behind' a MOVABLE dryer."

Wouldn't the panel behind a dryer be non-compliant
to the "Readily Accessible" aspect [ RE: Article 100
- Definitions, ...`08 NEC ] ?

& & & &

 

[jxofaltrds]

& & & &

Wouldn't the panel behind a dryer be non-compliant
to the "Readily Accessible" aspect [ RE: Article 100
- Definitions, ...`08 NEC ] ?

& & & &

How often do you get into your electrical panel. I'll most people never get into it. So how readily is readily? less than 1 minute? 5 minutes? 10?

If it 'covered' the door then yes I say not allowed.

I see no problem with moving a dryer to work on the inside of a panel.

Remember this is existing. If you were making an installation less code compliant than when it was installed I understand failing it.

What does 'grandfathered' mean to you?