No ground in Garage

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green2012

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highland park, il
The houses garage was wired with direct barial wire. Its 3 #12's. Hot-nuetral-ground. It comes out of the ground in a rigid nipple that punches through the garage. The prior owner rewired the ground wire to be a switch leg coming from the house. So now the garage is ungrounded. Its been like that for years. Home owner said he installed GFCI and they tripped instantly and wont reset. Whats the easiest fix? He wants to keep the switch set up. Ground rod?
 
There is something else going on. The GFCI does not need a grounding electrode or an equipment grounding conductor to work. How was the GFCI installed and what loads caused it to trip?
Also is the "ground" wire insulated or bare?
 
Can we say "dangerous" there's no way I would leave it like that, is the gfi at the house? If its 12-2 direct burial, I would venture to say its uf cable, and the ground is unisulated other than the cable sheath. If they were using the ground as a neutral it wouldn't be as bad, but still not a good way of doing it. I've seen carpenters use that trick to make three way switch legs.
 
I would get a wireless 3 way from Lutron and install the egc back. There is something else going on as Don stated.
 
green2012 said:
The houses garage was wired with direct barial wire. Its 3 #12's. Hot-nuetral-ground. It comes out of the ground in a rigid nipple that punches through the garage. The prior owner rewired the ground wire to be a switch leg coming from the house. So now the garage is ungrounded. Its been like that for years. Home owner said he installed GFCI and they tripped instantly and wont reset. Whats the easiest fix? He wants to keep the switch set up. Ground rod?
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If I'm reading this correctly all I can say is a young boy was killed here in Kentucky by this very same set up. Please fix this, remove the existing switching.
Ground rod alone won't help either the ground rod will NOT clear a fault.
 
I am assuming he wired the gfci wrong. I havent looked at the setup. Going off his description. The more important part is the "no ground." He used the ground wire as a switchleg. If a fault occurs in the garage there wont be a path to clear it correct? A ground rod wont do it? Only fix is to either remove the switchleg and make it a ground again?
 
No, a ground rod will not fix it, the ground being used as a hot wire is more dangerous than the no ground at all out there, any damage to the outer sheath of the uf cable can cause a shock hazard due to leaking voltage. As Dennis suggested, get a wireless switch.
 
hillbilly1 said:
No, a ground rod will not fix it, the ground being used as a hot wire is more dangerous than the no ground at all out there, any damage to the outer sheath of the uf cable can cause a shock hazard due to leaking voltage. As Dennis suggested, get a wireless switch.
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HUGE +1 on all!
 
Forgetting about the ground for a moment and why is GFCI tripping?

Three conductors from house, hot, neutral, switched hot.

Switched load probably has neutral returning through GFCI and is the source of unbalance causing the tripping.



No equipment ground is still not worth saving the switching situation, better off if everyone lives than having to be inconvenienced by the switching arrangement.
 
"Easiest fix" is to rip up the cable and DO IT RIGHT.

I really hate it when someone trys to take short-cuts, it doesn't work, it creates a dangerous situation .. and they expect you to wave a magic wand and make it all right!

Ixnay on that. They didn't know what they were doing, and you can't fix stupid. I'll bet you find a few more corners cut as well ... such as, I doubt the UF is buried 24" deep.

Nope. REAL trench. Box-pipe-box. Pull the wires you need.

Keep the guy in the dark. Just tell him it will cost $X to fix. Have him agree to the price- not the method. Then get to work.
 
renosteinke said:
"Easiest fix" is to rip up the cable and DO IT RIGHT.

I really hate it when someone trys to take short-cuts, it doesn't work, it creates a dangerous situation .. and they expect you to wave a magic wand and make it all right!

Ixnay on that. They didn't know what they were doing, and you can't fix stupid. I'll bet you find a few more corners cut as well ... such as, I doubt the UF is buried 24" deep.

Nope. REAL trench. Box-pipe-box. Pull the wires you need.

Keep the guy in the dark. Just tell him it will cost $X to fix. Have him agree to the price- not the method. Then get to work.
Click to expand...

May want to at least tell him it will require digging new trench before tearing up his lawn, that can just make a bad situation worse.
 
Simple fix as others have stated.
put the bare ground back as the ground , install a remote switch such as , Lutron , Insteon, Zwave.
No reason to make things worse then they are.
 
i wouldn't give that situation a second thought. the homeowner would have been informed of the dangers that lurk in that installation, given a price to repair it and i would have convinced them to lock out or disconnect the wires from the feeding breaker. safety first , always. especially where someones life and my license are connected, which is anything i do electrically.
 
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