ungrounded branch circuit

[apjames]

hi, commercial electrician here with not much residential exp. friend of mine is selling their house (had no renovations done to it, built in the '50s.) inspector came through and said to 'repair outlets that arent grounded'. i went through and found (7) 3 prong outlets and (1) 2 prong outlet that had no ground wire in any of them. i verfied theyre all on one circuit .i was told 2 ways around this is (1) install a gfci at the very beginning of the circut with the load side feeding all devices (and putting a 'no equipment ground' label on all devices, and (2) replace all with 2 prong outlets. hoping for some input on that and possibly a code reference because ive been looking and cant find it. thanks.

 

[Michael15956]

You are correct, here is your section, 406.4(D)(1)&(2), 2011NEC

 

[apjames]

exactly what i needed. thank you much sir

 

[infinity]

What is the wiring method old NM cable or AC cable? In some cases the AC jacket can be used as an EGC.

 

[apjames]

old nm. theres 6 circuits ran that are all original, of the 6 this one circuit has no ground, not even in the panel. im just worried that the inspector wont go for it. because all hes gonna do is plug a outlet tester in them and still read no ground, even though they'll have stickers on all of them. wouldnt that be covered under some sort of grandfather clause?

 

[Smart $]

... im just worried that the inspector wont go for it. because all hes gonna do is plug a outlet tester in them and still read no ground, even though they'll have stickers on all of them. wouldnt that be covered under some sort of grandfather clause?

Is he an AHJ inspector, or [just] a home inspector?

Typically, the AHJ can only require installations comply with the code in effect when the home was built, or at the time an upgrade or addition was made, but only for the upgrade or addition. Local ordinances may supercede this.

Typically, a home inspector has no authority to require anything... but he can influence potential buyers.

 

[kwired]

old nm. theres 6 circuits ran that are all original, of the 6 this one circuit has no ground, not even in the panel. im just worried that the inspector wont go for it. because all hes gonna do is plug a outlet tester in them and still read no ground, even though they'll have stickers on all of them. wouldnt that be covered under some sort of grandfather clause?

Show inspector the sections mentioned in post #2.

If this is a HI, their job is to inspect and report conditions, and offer suggestions. They have no legal authority to order changes. Their reporting should mention there is no equipment grounding conductor at these receptacles, but that there has or has not been actions taken that make the installation code compliant. A suggestion that finding a method to install a proper equipment grounding conductor will make the installation safer is a good idea - but is nothing more than an suggestion and not an order to make changes. The persons reading the inspection report can use that information any way they choose, usually for price negotiation for the selling of the property.

 

[dhalleron]

I went through this with a house I bought, rehabbed and sold. Only the kitchen and part of the living room had grounds in the romex.

I replaced the non grounded outlets with 2 prong since I wasn't planning on doing a complete re-wire. The home inspector wrote it up in his report.

The buyers had some computers and home theater equipment they wanted grounded and asked me to ground certain outlets. In order to sell the house I was willing to replace some wire and receptacles.

I've noticed on a few of these houses, the electrician used whatever cable he had left on his truck. In the living room on one the cable coming from the panel to first outlet was grounded and it was hit or miss on some of the other runs. They tried to save wire costs I guess by only grounding the kitchen, but if they ran out of non grounded cable they would use grounded cable in certain places.

 

[kwired]

I went through this with a house I bought, rehabbed and sold. Only the kitchen and part of the living room had grounds in the romex.

I replaced the non grounded outlets with 2 prong since I wasn't planning on doing a complete re-wire. The home inspector wrote it up in his report.

The buyers had some computers and home theater equipment they wanted grounded and asked me to ground certain outlets. In order to sell the house I was willing to replace some wire and receptacles.

I've noticed on a few of these houses, the electrician used whatever cable he had left on his truck. In the living room on one the cable coming from the panel to first outlet was grounded and it was hit or miss on some of the other runs. They tried to save wire costs I guess by only grounding the kitchen, but if they ran out of non grounded cable they would use grounded cable in certain places.

You better watch how you use that word when it probably did not apply to the situation. Or at least use some adjectives like wannabe with it

 

[apjames]

yea i left him with a photocopy of the section mentioned. problem is that their settlement is monday, so the gfci setup is really the only thing i could do to keep that flowing. ripping open walls and replacing wires isnt really an option. thanks for all the help people.