'X' receptacles?

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K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I ran across some new lighting control equipment that has what they call 'X' receptacles as part of the unit. They look like the old 20 amp non grounded receptacles, but with a ground. IOW, it looks like 2 'T's. Both 120 volt and 240 (Nema 5 and Nema 6) will fit into the receptacle which is powered by 240 volts.

I can't find a link to a pic of just a receptacle, but here is a pic of the application, bear in mind that the receptacles are powered with 240 volts, but will accept a 120 volt plug:

ImageGen.ashx


This particular unit is not listed, but is sold as part of a mixed line of listed and non listed lighting controllers.

Here are some questions:

Is this even legal? I mean, why bother with listing if the above is legal? BTW, all the listed products from this company have NEMA receptacles, not 'X' receptacles.

Have any of you even heard of 'X' receptacles before?

One of the above units was sold by a 'horticultural supplier' to a customer that had 120 volt lighting to control. A test was done (luckily) with just one ballast. It caught fire.

Fortunately, the only loss was the ballast and possibly the controller so the issue today is strictly academic.

If there WERE to have been a huge loss, who would be the responsible party? Of the following choices...

1) The manufacturer non listed controller.

2) The retail seller that sold the product based upon the final customers specs.

3) The customer that paid for and supplied the controller.

4) The electrician that ran the wiring to feed the controller, all of which was done properly, and verified as such after the incident.

I didn't even know it was legal to sell non listed electrical controls to the general public that were configured in such an (my opinion) unsafe and hazardous manner.

I wish I could find a pic on the web of these 'X' receptacles. If I don't by Monday, I will be able to just take a pic of the actual product, which will show more detail than the pic I posted above.

Thanks.
 
F

fmtjfw

Senior Member
Location
Fairmont, WV, USA
K8MHZ said:
xplug-250.jpg


That's it! Good find!

Are they listed, or approved by any NRTL? Do they have a NEMA rating?
Click to expand...

Nope:

406.4 General Installation Requirements.
(F) Noninterchangeable Types. Receptacles connected to circuits that have different voltages, frequencies, or types of current (ac or dc) on the same premises shall be of such design that the attachment plugs used on these circuits are not interchangeable.

The receptacle as pictured as several problems:
1) it is not polarized for 2 prong plugs (allows neutral prong t be plugged in to hot slot.
2) as stated as a "feature" it allows 120v/240v wiring and accepts 120v and 240v plugs.

Note the face seems very clean with out any hint of a NRTL listing or voltage or amperage rating.
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
fmtjfw said:
Nope:

406.4 General Installation Requirements.
(F) Noninterchangeable Types. Receptacles connected to circuits that have different voltages, frequencies, or types of current (ac or dc) on the same premises shall be of such design that the attachment plugs used on these circuits are not interchangeable.

The receptacle as pictured as several problems:
1) it is not polarized for 2 prong plugs (allows neutral prong t be plugged in to hot slot.
2) as stated as a "feature" it allows 120v/240v wiring and accepts 120v and 240v plugs.

Note the face seems very clean with out any hint of a NRTL listing or voltage or amperage rating.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

It's 406.3 (F) in my 2008 book. Again, thanks. That's perfect.
 
T

TimK

Member
Location
Tacoma, WA
K8MHZ said:
That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

It's 406.3 (F) in my 2008 book. Again, thanks. That's perfect.
Click to expand...

Just from what I have seen, is because the remote ballast will burn at 120 or 240 with the flip of a switch. The horticulturalist, "stoners" are not always the best electricians.
 
T

TimK

Member
Location
Tacoma, WA
1000W MH

1000W MH

So 406.3(B) sends me to 210.21(B)3 Exception 2, which sends me to 410.62 (C)(1). Woohoo, that was fun. Now "A luminaire OR listed assembly shall be permitted to be cord connected if the following conditions apply......" IMO, the application would be correct, it is just the idea of being able to plug a 120V plug into a 240V recept. I guess you label and safeguard as much as possible?
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
TimK said:
So 406.3(B) sends me to 210.21(B)3 Exception 2, which sends me to 410.62 (C)(1). Woohoo, that was fun. Now "A luminaire OR listed assembly shall be permitted to be cord connected if the following conditions apply......" IMO, the application would be correct, it is just the idea of being able to plug a 120V plug into a 240V recept. I guess you label and safeguard as much as possible?
Click to expand...

The best label is 'do not install'.
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Just an update.

I got the controller and pulled the receptacles. They indicated they were UL listed for 125 volts (but wired with 240).

I called UL. They had me read off the number on the receptacle. E243553.

UL lady told me to go to a website, the one for the manufacturer. I did. None of the receptacles on the site looked like the one I had (able to accept both 120 and 240).

Lady now wants pics and stories. Possible investigation?

UL lady is concerned I ran across some bootleg receptacles bearing the UL listing.

I'll post any more updates I get.

Thanks!
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
K8MHZ said:
Lady now wants pics and stories. Possible investigation?

UL lady is concerned I ran across some bootleg receptacles bearing the UL listing.

I'll post any more updates I get.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Ooooh. Maybe there is a finders fee.:D I for one will be interested in what they find out. Thanks for the updates.
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
This company sells them online, but clearly states they're "non-UL" :

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=8395

This one has a description that I can't understand, and sounds like it's describing a product other than what's pictured:

http://eastwesthydro.com/grow-light...utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=product-feed

These guys give you a choice of three configurations under one product listing, but make no claims:

http://www.harvesttimesales.com/Receptacle-120-Volt-15-Amp_p_8792.html



Someone probably figured, "If they're selling it, it must be ok to use it"
 
T

TimK

Member
Location
Tacoma, WA
PetrosA said:
This company sells them online, but clearly states they're "non-UL" :

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=8395

This one has a description that I can't understand, and sounds like it's describing a product other than what's pictured:

http://eastwesthydro.com/grow-light...utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=product-feed

These guys give you a choice of three configurations under one product listing, but make no claims:

http://www.harvesttimesales.com/Receptacle-120-Volt-15-Amp_p_8792.html



Someone probably figured, "If they're selling it, it must be ok to use it"
Click to expand...

The second one, up top says non-UL and part number. But a question pops up, doesn't the European nation work off of that type of plug? Maybe we can get them to pipe in on this?
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
PetrosA said:
This company sells them online, but clearly states they're "non-UL" :

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=8395

This one has a description that I can't understand, and sounds like it's describing a product other than what's pictured:

http://eastwesthydro.com/grow-light...utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=product-feed

These guys give you a choice of three configurations under one product listing, but make no claims:

http://www.harvesttimesales.com/Receptacle-120-Volt-15-Amp_p_8792.html



Someone probably figured, "If they're selling it, it must be ok to use it"
Click to expand...

This one clearly shows the UL file number and it's the same as the ones I have, E243553

ZRCP-006.jpg
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Countries in the EU don't use any kinds of plugs with flat prongs that I ever saw (UK prongs are flat sided, but are too bulky to be considered "flat"). Most use some variant of the Schuko plug with either the side grounds or a ground pin mounted in the socket or a combination type cord end. The down side to this system is that ground equipped cord ends can be plugged into non grounded receptacles in many countries. They also don't pay attention to polarity like we do.
 
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