"Bah Humbug"

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satcom

Senior Member
The holidays are always a bit busy, and this year, with the storm damage, work was backing up, a few weeks ago, a neighbor asked to have a transfer switch installed, so I stopped by to take a look, he had 100A Service in great shape, the meter pan could use a new socket, but other then that the service lateral was No2 thhn cooper good to 130 amps, more load then his home would require, he not no plans to add and large loads, just hook up a transfer switch, so I went back to the shop and looked for a good deal on a transfer kit with a cable, and found one for 279 at a vendor 30 miles south of our shop, so i headed down there to pick up the kit at that bargin price, because he was concerned with the 359 cost of one at a local box store, I had the transfer kit in the truck ready to install, and let him know, he need not worry I had the switch and was finishing up some storm work, but if he lost power, I woud be over right away and hook up the switch, well after finally catching up on our storm work, people without power, I was ready to install his switch, and that evening noticed his wife working on the christmas lights, so i said I could install the switch, and she replied, We have someone else to do it, so that is fine, but what was not good, was the person they found sold him a 200A service, that he did not need, so live and learn, i have helped the neighbors with small jobs over the years and got plenty of thank yous and coffee, but this year I think I learned the meaning of Bag Humbug, there are contractors out there, that that will sell more then needed, but it is more the customers fault for demanding both cheap price and fast response, you can't have both, pick one or the other, so if there are holiday requests from neighbors for help, it may be best to just say Bah Humbug.My price for the job, would have been a cup of coffee.
 
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Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
The holidays are always a bit busy, and this year, with the storm damage, work was backing up, a few weeks ago, a neighbor asked to have a transfer switch installed, so I stopped by to take a look, he had 100A Service in great shape, the meter pan could use a new socket, but other then that the service lateral was No2 thhn cooper good to 130 amps, more load then his home would require, he not no plans to add and large loads, just hook up a transfer switch, so I went back to the shop and looked for a good deal on a transfer kit with a cable, and found one for 279 at a vendor 30 miles south of our shop, so i headed down there to pick up the kit at that bargin price, because he was concerned with the 359 cost of one at a local box store, I had the transfer kit in the truck ready to install, and let him know, he need not worry I had the switch and was finishing up some storm work, but if he lost power, I woud be over right away and hook up the switch, well after finally catching up on our storm work, people without power, I was ready to install his switch, and that evening noticed his wife working on the christmas lights, so i said I could install the switch, and she replied, We have someone else to do it, so that is fine, but what was not good, was the person they found sold him a 200A service, that he did not need, so live and learn, i have helped the neighbors with small jobs over the years and got plenty of thank yous and coffee, but this year I think I learned the meaning of Bag Humbug, there are contractors out there, that that will sell more then needed, but it is more the customers fault for demanding both cheap price and fast response, you can't have both, pick one or the other, so if there are holiday requests from neighbors for help, it may be best to just say Bah Humbug.My price for the job, would have been a cup of coffee.

Sounds very Typical. People are Dumb like that.But at least maybe the electrician that did the work made some money. You are better off by not wasting your time and energy,doing a free job that would not have been appreciated.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Bad situation. Like the saying goes " No good deed goes unpunished" Since he knew your work situation and the fact you already had the switch let the other contractor have at it. When he calls for something else or the other guy screws up charge him as you would a complete stranger and new customer.
 

__dan

Senior Member
I got a call one time from the facility manager at ESPN, 'how would you like to do my work'. "Oh yes would I, you bet, absolutely".

Trying to get a sense of what he really wanted, I asked 'how are things with your regular guy?'.

"I'm waiting for him and he's twenty minutes late".

Without giving it any thought (fatal, I know) I said "well I'm sure he stopped for coffee or gas and will be there by the time I get there".
(should have skipped calculus and studied butt kissing)

Business would be great if 90% of the customers would consent to their retraining.
 

Speshulk

Senior Member
Location
NY
I'm curious, satcom. What do these people do for a living?

There seems to be a larger and larger divide between those that work in the trades and those that don't when it comes to an appreciation of what it takes (and costs) to do a job. Was playing cards one night and most of the other guys were teachers. One guy was complaining that it cost him $250 to have someone come out to look at his oil burner. You would have thought I was speaking a foreign language while I explained how that company had to pay the salary of the guy that came out, match his withholding, pay for comp., liability, and truck insurance, truck payment, etc., etc., etc. Sometimes people have no appreciation for the things that it takes behind the scenes in order for a job to get accomplished.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
... so I went back to the shop and looked for a good deal on a transfer kit with a cable, and found one for 279 at a vendor 30 miles south of our shop, so i headed down there to pick up the kit at that bargin price, because he was concerned with the 359 cost of one at a local box store.

He was so concerned with that $80 that he had the other guy install a new service for $$$$. Either you're the biggest sucker in the world or the other guy was one heck of a salesman.

I would have charged him for that hour drive when I heard that.

-Hal
 

satcom

Senior Member
He was so concerned with that $80 that he had the other guy install a new service for $$$$. Either you're the biggest sucker in the world or the other guy was one heck of a salesman.

I would have charged him for that hour drive when I heard that.

-Hal
I think the other guy was not so much a better salesman but just set to make a sale out of the opportunity, so the fact that the existing service was more then adequate, did not get in the way, of lining his pocket, and yes I was a sucker, for helping someone looking to get sucked in himself.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Less expensive lockout kits can be sold as attractive alternatives to transfer switches.
Especially, when someone tries to make you look bad for failing to mention it.

If you really care, its never too late to blow the whistle on unnecessary construction that may be screwing people.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
If you really care, its never too late to blow the whistle on unnecessary construction that may be screwing people.

I think we all can agree that satcom got the shaft. Yes the homeowner got screwed by the

electrical contractor. But who are you going to complain too ? The AHJ, he doesn't have a dog

in this dispute. The BBB, they are just bought off by $$$.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I have noticed a bias, a 'man on the street' attitude, that you simply MUST have a 200A service. If you don't have a 200A service, somehow you're not 'keeping up,'

Even when I went to do the service change on my own home - 60A to 100A, with a load calculated at 72A - I was urged by the AHJ to just put in a 200. "The box and wire won't cost hardly anything more, and you'll get more breaker spaces, too!" was the reasoning.

This was a change; in my previous jurisdiction, anything over 125A had to go through PoCo planning.

Naturally, there's a 'trickle down' effect. That 200A service now needs a 200A transfer switch, etc.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
I have noticed a bias, a 'man on the street' attitude, that you simply MUST have a 200A service. If you don't have a 200A service, somehow you're not 'keeping up,'

Even when I went to do the service change on my own home - 60A to 100A, with a load calculated at 72A - I was urged by the AHJ to just put in a 200. "The box and wire won't cost hardly anything more, and you'll get more breaker spaces, too!" was the reasoning.

This was a change; in my previous jurisdiction, anything over 125A had to go through PoCo planning.

Naturally, there's a 'trickle down' effect. That 200A service now needs a 200A transfer switch, etc.
I learned a lesson a while back, explained to customer that he didn't need 200a. So he hired another electrician to put in 200a service. So now I think, if that's what makes customer happy, fine with me. Now I'm likely to say something like "you probably don't need 200a, but we can certainly put it in, if you ever need it you already have it." Look at it this way--does he really need a car as big as the 4-door truck sitting in the driveway? But the dealer didn't try to talk him down to a 4-cyl hyundai...
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
I learned a lesson a while back, explained to customer that he didn't need 200a. So he hired another electrician to put in 200a service. So now I think, if that's what makes customer happy, fine with me. Now I'm likely to say something like "you probably don't need 200a, but we can certainly put it in, if you ever need it you already have it." Look at it this way--does he really need a car as big as the 4-door truck sitting in the driveway? But the dealer didn't try to talk him down to a 4-cyl hyundai...

I agree. You lost a job because the customer wanted 200 amps and you tried to talk him out of it because he didn't need it.
If they want 200 amp service, 200 amp service is what they get.
I've only had 1 person that almost swallowed their teeth when I quoted 200 amp service to them, Quickly decided 100 amp would be fine when they heard the price difference.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
But was there any mention of a 200A service or upgrading the 100A in the original discussion about the transfer switch?
I'm confused as to why they would go out and get a second opinion instead of asking you if they already had OK'd the transfer switch from you.

-Hal
 
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satcom

Senior Member
But was there any mention of a 200A service or upgrading the 100A in the original discussion about the transfer switch?
I'm confused as to why they would go out and get a second opinion instead of asking you if they already had OK'd the transfer switch from you.

-Hal
No mention at all, he was so worried the transfer kit would cost 300, and his service was in great shape. I think he was in a panic to get his generator transfer installed, and he found someone that knew the art of selling for max profit.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
No mention at all, he was so worried the transfer kit would cost 300, and his service was in great shape. I think he was in a panic to get his generator transfer installed, and he found someone that knew the art of selling for max profit.

people are funny, and what they consider important is really none of my business.

and wires in the walls is a necessary nuisance to most folks.

when they find out that that box on the back of the house that works "JUST FINE"
costs as much to replace as new drapes for the front room..... guess what.....

i had a person request about $2,000 worth of work, and we sat down to discuss it,
and i'd already picked up material based on their verbal request.... and when
we were done, she decided that she couldn't afford to do anything, 'cause she
had to fly out of state for family stuff.

this wasn't the first time this had happened with this person, it was the last.

i sat down and wrote a bill for the wasted time and fuel since i'd known her,
and it was just about $1,000 even.... so, the next time she called with a grand
plan, i said sure... let me send you an email..... and i sent the bill with all
the wasted trips and time.....

she never called back, even to ask what the bill was about.... i suspect she knew.

look at it this way, you don't have to deal with them ever again.
 

Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
I learned a lesson a while back, explained to customer that he didn't need 200a. So he hired another electrician to put in 200a service. So now I think, if that's what makes customer happy, fine with me. Now I'm likely to say something like "you probably don't need 200a, but we can certainly put it in, if you ever need it you already have it." Look at it this way--does he really need a car as big as the 4-door truck sitting in the driveway? But the dealer didn't try to talk him down to a 4-cyl hyundai...

You are exactly right It is not about what they need it is what they want.
Bigger is better!
 
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