Got a call from a homeowner who purchased a spec house that I wired about 8 months ago. He has been living in the house for about 5 months with no problems. All of a sudden there is a AFCI breaker that will not stay set.The circuit in question has 1 bedroom and bathroom lighting on it.Any tips on what to possibly look for right away that could be the culprit? I know that if the equip ground and the neutral come in contact that will trip but are there any other scenarios that anyone has run across that will cause a problem? I have installed at least a hundred AFCI breakers over the past couple years and have never had an issue. FWIW I have always used HOM115 and 120 breakers. Thanks.
AFCI troubleshoot
- Thread starter nizak
- Start date
- Status
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Does the breaker hold with every thing unplugged ? If so there is your problem. Faulty
appliance. But you already knew this. Divide & conquer is all that I can think of. You wired this
home. Start in the middle of the circuit & disconnect all wires. Does the breaker hold ?
Work forwards or backwards from there.
appliance. But you already knew this. Divide & conquer is all that I can think of. You wired this
home. Start in the middle of the circuit & disconnect all wires. Does the breaker hold ?
Work forwards or backwards from there.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
At least it's not intermittent, that's half the battle right there. You should be able to meg the circuit and then start splitting it up. Like John said, the first thing is to unplug everything, shut all the light switches off then try the breaker again before digging into it.
mhanson
Member
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
- Occupation
- General Journeyman Electrician
AFCI troubleshoot
I've had a recent conversation with Square-D Tech support and it's understood that current must flow in order to verify the soundness of an AFCI circuit. So disconnecting all the loads will not, in and of itself test the AFCI Circuit, this will only test an inadvertant ground / neutral connection.
It may however help to isolate the problem to the bedroom or the bathroom if you run only one load at a time.
It's been my experience in installations involving recessed lighting fixtures, manufacturer connections may not be properly secured at the push in connectors resulting in an arc fault that may not appear immediately, We have made it a practive to always double check the manufacurer's connedtions during the installation.
Michael Hanson
Redwood City, CA
I've had a recent conversation with Square-D Tech support and it's understood that current must flow in order to verify the soundness of an AFCI circuit. So disconnecting all the loads will not, in and of itself test the AFCI Circuit, this will only test an inadvertant ground / neutral connection.
It may however help to isolate the problem to the bedroom or the bathroom if you run only one load at a time.
It's been my experience in installations involving recessed lighting fixtures, manufacturer connections may not be properly secured at the push in connectors resulting in an arc fault that may not appear immediately, We have made it a practive to always double check the manufacurer's connedtions during the installation.
Michael Hanson
Redwood City, CA
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
There may not be a problem with the circuit. Since the new branch-feeder/parallel breakers have come out I have seen problems with circuits I know are clean.
The book SqD puts out says turn the breaker off, hold the test button down and reset the breaker-
If it is a ground fault it will trip immediately.
If there is a two second delay before the trip it could be an arc event.
If there is a delay of five seconds it is an overloaded circuit.
Then there are more trouble shooting tips to try depending of the specifics of the of the condition of the trip on their website. Here's a link http://www.schneider-electric.us/si...ncer=oui&autnmQueryBis=time saver diagnostics
There is an 800 number to the SqD AFCI complaint department, too. I could get off the couch and look for it, but I'm not of a mind to attempt that at this momement. It should be easy enough to get from your supplier.
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Not directly "electrical", but over the years I have found it most helpful to approach the owner with "tell me any work that may have been done prior to this problem starting" especially anything involving nails.
I have found Romex problems associated with many small construction jobs and even picture handing.. in AFCI cases that "new fixture that hubby installed for me"
I have found Romex problems associated with many small construction jobs and even picture handing.. in AFCI cases that "new fixture that hubby installed for me"
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Brings back memories. Rather disgusted woman tells me "My husband put these shelves up in the garage...". I had to laugh. She took it well.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
This is only a problem with Homeline, as well as GE, Siemens, and other similar styled panels. Even before we started using AFCI's I still hated having the neutral buss at the foot of the breaker. Why can't they place neutral bus in all panels like they do in the QO panels?
Actually, GE has it figured out. Their neutral bars run the full height of the breaker and their AFCIs don't take up any more space than a regular single pole does.
mhanson
Member
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
- Occupation
- General Journeyman Electrician
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Some manufacturers have come up with smaller AFCI breakers, Like Cutler Hammer
Michael Hanson
Redwood City, CA
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
That is nice, but I still never liked the neutral bus at the foot of the breakers, they are easy to make up at the initial installation - just connect neutrals (and grounds, if it is a service panel) first, but it is more difficult to get to those connections in an existing panel.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
The thing with houses is that they settle and shift. I have seen problems show up several years after a house was built, such as nails through NMC and such. I haven't dealt much with AFCI's, but shouldn't be much different than trouble shooting any other bad circuit.
While it could be something that the home owner did or had done, I wouldn't waste all my time focusing on that. Could be something that was done originally that is just now showing up.
While it could be something that the home owner did or had done, I wouldn't waste all my time focusing on that. Could be something that was done originally that is just now showing up.
bullheimer
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
when they first came out i had them trip when an insulation installer kicked a wire in the attic. the 90 degree bend at a staple made it trip. when i pushed the wire back down, it stopped.
had others with no explanation whatsoever. had to pull the breaker out after inspection.
recently breakers have improved and i agree with asking the HO what he has done lately. last big mystery i went thru the whole circuit that he had replaced the outlets on and found one behind a tv that had a loose connection, or the ground wire touching a neut screw. i forget. and that was all it took to fix it. this after i replaced the breaker to no avail. HO's can screw up a train wreck.
i hate afci ckts ever since and run bedroom ckts seperately from any others to help avoid that. i dont know if that works, because when they get in the panel they are all next to eachother anyway. but now i'm just superstitious, i guess. but seriously, sometimes i wont even use all metal staples on the wire! just those plastic covered ones! i also uncurl the white wire to the neutral bar from them too to prevent any current from getting 'lost' for a micro second and tripping them little basteds!
i just did a one room w/bath cabin and had to afci protect EVERYTHING (except the one gfi outlet in the bath and the washing machine outlet (because it will be a single). so i guess i am going to see just how good the newer (stupid Homeline) breakers are that stick out a mile. about the only thing i could keep separate was the wall heater ckt.
had others with no explanation whatsoever. had to pull the breaker out after inspection.
recently breakers have improved and i agree with asking the HO what he has done lately. last big mystery i went thru the whole circuit that he had replaced the outlets on and found one behind a tv that had a loose connection, or the ground wire touching a neut screw. i forget. and that was all it took to fix it. this after i replaced the breaker to no avail. HO's can screw up a train wreck.
i hate afci ckts ever since and run bedroom ckts seperately from any others to help avoid that. i dont know if that works, because when they get in the panel they are all next to eachother anyway. but now i'm just superstitious, i guess. but seriously, sometimes i wont even use all metal staples on the wire! just those plastic covered ones! i also uncurl the white wire to the neutral bar from them too to prevent any current from getting 'lost' for a micro second and tripping them little basteds!
i just did a one room w/bath cabin and had to afci protect EVERYTHING (except the one gfi outlet in the bath and the washing machine outlet (because it will be a single). so i guess i am going to see just how good the newer (stupid Homeline) breakers are that stick out a mile. about the only thing i could keep separate was the wall heater ckt.
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