panel board mounted vertically

[eduardo morales]

I was watching Mike Holmes, episode "Pain in the glass" at DIY channel, and in the episode the electrician said that the panel can't be mounted in vertical position because he state that the branch circuit wires can't be run from top of the interior panel, because line and load wires can't be mixed together next to the main C.B., My question is if manufacture instructions allows you to do this then I don't see any code violation.
To fix the problem in the episode they mount the panel in an horizontal position so branch circuit wires can be run to the side of the panel. Now this is a violation of the code article 240 section 81 indicating that C.B. shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open "off" position or closed "on" position, because the "up" position of the handle must be in the "on" position. The only code section I can find on this matter is 230.7 conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.
Comments will be appreciate.
thanks.

 

[grcmptrnrd]

Holmes' shows are filmed in Canada and adhere to Canadian codes.

 

[bighills]

The show is filmed in Canada. There code allows that type of install.

 

[kwired]

That is a show based in Canada, and AFAIK he is correct - for Canada installations. In US installations you typically can not turn the panel horizontal, as it will result in some breaker handles being in violation as - handle in up position must be the "ON" position.

 

[shepelec]

I can think of a few installs where this would have been nice to be able to do though.

 

[roger]

I can think of a few installs where this would have been nice to be able to do though.

Well, you can do it but, as mentioned by kwired, you would only be able to use half of the spaces in the panel.

Roger

 

[norcal]

Well, you can do it but, as mentioned by kwired, you would only be able to use half of the spaces in the panel.

Roger

Then after you leave, someone will take advantage of all those empty spaces.

 

[roger]

Then after you leave, someone will take advantage of all those empty spaces.

Most likely.


Roger

 

[kwired]

Well, you can do it but, as mentioned by kwired, you would only be able to use half of the spaces in the panel.

Roger

If it has a main breaker you also have to watch the orientation of the main.

 

[jimport]

One nice feature of those panels are the dividers that shield the incoming lugs from accidental contact. Wish the US versions had something similar.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

One nice feature of those panels are the dividers that shield the incoming lugs from accidental contact. Wish the US versions had something similar.

The code making panels do not like that idea. I submitted proposals to require that for the 2011 and 2014 code cycles. The last rejection comment in the 2014 ROP says it is not a problem to get the utility to turn off the power when you want to work in the enclosure that contains the service disconnect.

 

[ASG]

That is a show based in Canada, and AFAIK he is correct - for Canada installations. In US installations you typically can not turn the panel horizontal, as it will result in some breaker handles being in violation as - handle in up position must be the "ON" position.

Dumb question but I've seen many panels where the circuit breakers are installed "backwards." If the CB's were labeled with "-" as on and "o" as off, where would the violation be?

 

[PEDRO ESCOVILLA]

how do you install a breaker backwards ? cant wrap my head around that one

 

[ASG]

how do you install a breaker backwards ? cant wrap my head around that one

Would you rather I said upside down? Basically installed so you would have to flip the CB away from the bus bar to turn it on and towards the bus to turn it off.

 

[iwire]

The last rejection comment in the 2014 ROP says it is not a problem to get the utility to turn off the power when you want to work in the enclosure that contains the service disconnect.

Yeah, the power companies have hot lines for electricians to call and they run right out to do it, 30 minutes or less just like Dominos used to be. :roll:


Sometimes it seems they do not even read what they write.

 

[GerryB]

Would you rather I said upside down? Basically installed so you would have to flip the CB away from the bus bar to turn it on and towards the bus to turn it off.

I don't get it now. On is towards the center no matter how it is mounted.

 

[kwired]

Dumb question but I've seen many panels where the circuit breakers are installed "backwards." If the CB's were labeled with "-" as on and "o" as off, where would the violation be?

how do you install a breaker backwards ? cant wrap my head around that one

Would you rather I said upside down? Basically installed so you would have to flip the CB away from the bus bar to turn it on and towards the bus to turn it off.

I don't get it now. On is towards the center no matter how it is mounted.

I don't get it either. Code pretty much says a switch handle that operates vertically must open the circuit when the handle is in the down position. There is no similar requirement for switches that operate horizontally, rotationally, pushbuttons, or any other method.

 

[Cavie]

I don't know of any panel you could mount a breaker in backwards.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Would you rather I said upside down? Basically installed so you would have to flip the CB away from the bus bar to turn it on and towards the bus to turn it off.

What?

:blink::?

 

[kwired]

Would you rather I said upside down? Basically installed so you would have to flip the CB away from the bus bar to turn it on and towards the bus to turn it off.

What?

:blink::?

Maybe he means something like the FPE breakers where the handle operated the opposite from every other breaker I can think of.

Though they don't seem quite right, they are not in violation of any code if the handles operate horizontally. If they operate vertically, then up must be "closed" or "on" and down must be "open" or "off".

I don't know when this rule was introduced in NEC but I have seen occasional old panels that were not designed to comply with this rule. I'm guessing they were made before that rule was put into code.